tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post8842124888726552822..comments2007-04-04T17:54:09.773-07:00Nathan Bransfordnoreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-56842961671116476902007-04-04T17:54:00.000-07:002007-04-04T17:54:00.000-07:00Ohmagawd! I'm trying to work my way through the blog, but had to stop and comment. I laughed so hard at, "Also the monkey sees dead people and is Keyser Soze," I had tears rolling down my cheeks! I pity anyone who doesn't get the reference.<BR/><BR/>OK, back to reading - I am learning so much! Thank you!Martihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12921767665400064807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-27072771225054990142007-03-06T08:30:00.000-08:002007-03-06T08:30:00.000-08:00My favorite writer, WEB Griffin, has an interesting pace consisting of spates of fast and intense action in the midst of multiple chapters containing slow story developement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-59112273662415555782007-03-06T07:46:00.000-08:002007-03-06T07:46:00.000-08:00North By Northwest is one of my favorite movies. I hadn't seen it in a few years, and we rented it about a month ago.<BR/>It did seem slower than I'd remembered, and my memories of it were that something was always happening.<BR/>Hitchcock was great for pacing, and I recall somewhere he commented that that was how he edited. Interesting how even a master can be dated against today's standard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-34520306684893282282007-03-06T07:43:00.000-08:002007-03-06T07:43:00.000-08:00I love a well-paced book, and Nathan you're right - it can be slowly paced as well as fast-paced. If the writer is successful, it works.<BR/><BR/>Someone mentioned Patterson. I love reading him EVEN THOUGH he's artificially manipulating the pacing by his short chapters, pov jumps, etc. I enjoy some of his work more thank others (the Cross books, naturally), and there's a lot to be said for the single author head. The collaborations aren't as strong for me, even the numbers books which are very popular.<BR/><BR/>The best paced books do have a lot of conflict, with something opening as another problem is solved.<BR/><BR/>KaraKaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-36586457827631444002007-03-06T07:24:00.000-08:002007-03-06T07:24:00.000-08:00"joe said...<BR/>I was amazed to learn the length between most movie edits is around five or six seconds. Grab a DVD and check it out."<BR/><BR/>And then turn off the sound and watch how slow the edits appear to be.Katiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17210222751354931694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-5844225132615674732007-03-06T06:57:00.000-08:002007-03-06T06:57:00.000-08:00I'm sure that genre has everything to do with it. They are called "thrillers" for a reason. In general (and this is VERY general) literary fiction is slower, and--like Nathan says--consistently so. Thrillers are fast. Other genres fall somewhere in between.bran fannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-20761896966874026722007-03-06T04:38:00.000-08:002007-03-06T04:38:00.000-08:00I think pace is also dictated by genre. For the past three years I've judged first chapter contest entries for a local RWA chapter. <BR/><BR/>My first year I judged historical romances, then paranormals and this last year YA.<BR/><BR/>I am much more apt to appreciate a slower opening in a historical entry than a paranormal or even a YA.<BR/><BR/>I still expected to see conflict, both internal and external, in that first chapter. However, if it was a tad delayed in a historical I was okay with it. If it was delayed in a paranormal, the story often wasn't working.<BR/><BR/>Seems to me that I've come to expect certain pacing from certain stories. Thoughts?ERozanskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11673360522772196654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-84807343355486008522007-03-06T02:35:00.000-08:002007-03-06T02:35:00.000-08:00Umberto Eco makes an interesting point in his Harvard lectures about what he calls 'lingering' -- intentionally slowing things down. It can be effective, but it assumes some good will and a healthy attention span in the reader. It's a tough balancing act: you want to show the interior life of your characters and explore their world, but too much of it brings everything to a crashing halt. Not enough and you're just writing a screenplay in prose. Patterson is one extreme;at the other end of the spectrum there's Eco himself, who manges to dawdle through the murder mystery in The Name of the Rose and still keep yopu turning pages. Monks are drwoned in vats of blood ... and you get to lern about the Donatist heresy! Best of both worlds.Steve Axelrodhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09627668511171741211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-46208486006142725982007-03-05T21:17:00.000-08:002007-03-05T21:17:00.000-08:00Thanks everyone,<BR/><BR/>After reading this topic I decided to open the first chapter with a conflict.<BR/><BR/>However the first chapter has two parts. The first part opens with a conflict that has a resolution and introduces the second conflict that isn't completely resolved.<BR/><BR/>I hope it's effective.<BR/><BR/>JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-7421178287043989032007-03-05T20:22:00.000-08:002007-03-05T20:22:00.000-08:00good post, thanks.Davehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17985158361431606939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-91962930082359110582007-03-05T20:11:00.000-08:002007-03-05T20:11:00.000-08:00Also, I want to clarify that although I think the pace of novels on average is quicker than it used to be, I don't mind novels that have a slow pace. The most important thing is pace consistency. If your novel has a slow pace it all needs to be slow. If it's fast it needs to be fast. There's nothing to jar a reader like reading a slow first 50 pages and then get to multiple action sequences, or having a quick first 50 pages followed by slow character development. <BR/><BR/>Whether it's fast or slow, consistency is most important.Nathan Bransfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938449789819847825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-54775162728854532792007-03-05T19:04:00.000-08:002007-03-05T19:04:00.000-08:00I was amazed to learn the length between most movie edits is around five or six seconds. Grab a DVD and check it out.joehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01107270636934680336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-63874322839295900942007-03-05T18:55:00.000-08:002007-03-05T18:55:00.000-08:00Fast pacing to me means the reader has to take a break once in awhile just to rest as the author has worn him out with the story's action. Also, I must be the only reader on the planet that had to force myself to finish the DaVinci Code. What a yawner. (plus, Brown screwed up the aircraft procedures of flying from France to the UK)But, what do I know? Brown has a gazillion copies of his book in print and I have but one well worn manuscript. <BR/>Thanks for bringing up the subject, Nathan.joehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01107270636934680336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-37680541473966380362007-03-05T17:38:00.000-08:002007-03-05T17:38:00.000-08:00I agree that the pacing of everything has gotten faster. Try watching "North By Northwest" after even something as "old" as "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade." Whoa.<BR/>So, Dan Brown doesn't read like Sir Walter Scott. That's for sure.A Paperback Writerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10155962941590663738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-63992252854065417382007-03-05T16:39:00.000-08:002007-03-05T16:39:00.000-08:00For sure things are faster now. Compare the pacing of Disney's "Aladdin," especially the first song that Aladdin sings (where he has to stay one step ahead of everyone) to the pacing of "The Jungle Book" from 1967, where the snake sings "Trust in me" for what seems like twenty minutes.<BR/><BR/>Donald Maass talks about tension on every page. He says that this is a must. Every single page of manuscript must have tension. Now, this does not necessarily mean conflict on every page, but tension of some kind. For better or worse, this is what readers expect now.<BR/><BR/>However, this essential rhythm can be learned, just as music or dancing can be learned. With practice, it becomes--not effortless--but very natural.bran fannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-82552469090240521632007-03-05T15:52:00.000-08:002007-03-05T15:52:00.000-08:00erozanski-<BR/><BR/>I've noticed that as well. My girlfriend and I rented Dallas on DVD, and it was amazing how slowly everying was revealed in the first season -- it was great, and the slow reveal is sort of a lost art on TV. There may be something to the fact that we are more used to instant gratifcation and tighter, quicker pacing.Nathan Bransfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938449789819847825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-55234817215009392772007-03-05T15:45:00.000-08:002007-03-05T15:45:00.000-08:00Seems that pacing has quickened over the years. I often wonder if that is a reflection of our need for 'instant gratification.' <BR/><BR/>I've noticed this in everything from books to movies to TV dramas. The slow reveal has died a quick death. Readers and viewers want and maybe even expect to be grabbed by the throat now. Some books read like those 30 second roller coaster rides, thrill after thrill with no time to catch a breath. TV shows and movies often subscribe to the same technique. Just note all the camera angles in an episode of CSI...short, quick shots.<BR/><BR/>I'm just not sure if the frantic pace is a good thing. We don't get to savor a lot when we are being pulled through a plot.ERozanskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11673360522772196654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-27147370721369308872007-03-05T14:57:00.000-08:002007-03-05T14:57:00.000-08:00And it's important to note that different people have different tastes in pacing. One problem I have with the Dan Brown, James Patterson style of pacing is that it goes too damn fast for me. I want to slow down a bit, feel the tension mount. Not everyone has to be Anne Rice or Stephen King, where the author feels free to stop dead for a hundred pages of back story, but personally, I prefer a slow simmer to a quick broil.KingMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04017030835398885411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-78104749830333894472007-03-05T14:01:00.000-08:002007-03-05T14:01:00.000-08:00<I>Also the monkey sees dead people and is Keyser Soze.) </I><BR/><BR/>I scared my cat laughing out loud at this line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-61841826428908047392007-03-05T13:57:00.000-08:002007-03-05T13:57:00.000-08:00Great take on this subject! Thanks.Katiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17210222751354931694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-88690050189015951412007-03-05T13:34:00.000-08:002007-03-05T13:34:00.000-08:00I would call that pacing at the macro level. But there is also pacing at a much lower level. Events of importance should not flash by when we blink. Adding extra sensory detail is often an effective way to slow a scene down and give it greater weight.<BR/><BR/>There is also a rhythm to sentences, created by sentence length and structure. If there is too little variety, it comes across as monotonous, which can sometimes be useful as an alienating effect. But most of the time, an almost random variation in length and structure creates a much more pleasing and readable effect. I'm not sure if you call this pacing, but I've seen it called this by some authors.Janethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04600030574995481267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-24169382127196886282007-03-05T12:38:00.000-08:002007-03-05T12:38:00.000-08:00Kathy-<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for posting that, because it's something I forgot to address (but meant to). Too-fast pacing is just as much of a problem as too-slow pacing.Nathan Bransfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17938449789819847825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5334836757176538347.post-88954740655444569332007-03-05T12:36:00.000-08:002007-03-05T12:36:00.000-08:00I know there is the-'this is too slow and I can't keep my eyes open'pace and the perfect- 'can't put it down' pace, but there is also the -'this is way too much too fast' problem. I lean towards this one with my work. I want to keep everybody busy and entertained- maybe too much. So I totally get your music and melody comparison. ie- the right tempo. ^_^ thanks for your thoughts.Kathynoreply@blogger.com