Comments on Nathan Bransford - Literary Agent: Can I Get a Ruling: Twenty-something

This is the only page on the internet on which the...

2010-03-13T18:31:48.339-08:00

This is the only page on the internet on which the word "Anonymonopoeia" appears.

I'm 26, and I refuse to be a 'twenty-something'. I...

2009-11-01T09:22:09.774-08:00

I'm 26, and I refuse to be a 'twenty-something'. I will refuse to be a thirty-something etc, and my forty-something other half is 47 next week. If you're not going to be specific, why even give an age.

I know vampires have been mentioned, but I don't agree that decade generalisation is acceptable even in this circumstance. Over a hundred years old, yes. One-hundred-and-fifty-something, no. It's a waste of time on the part of the reader and the writer.

Or you could say mid-twenties or late-twenties if ...

2009-10-31T12:22:13.412-07:00

Or you could say mid-twenties or late-twenties if you didn't want to be too specific. It's a compromise.

One of the first things I come up with when I star...

2009-10-29T16:10:00.454-07:00

One of the first things I come up with when I start developing a character is his/her exact age.

I pretty much agree with all your comments. At lea...

2009-10-28T06:36:47.215-07:00

I pretty much agree with all your comments. At least say "early, mid-, or late twenties." That narrows it down somewhat.

But I also think in some novels it's more important than others. Adult novels don't seem to rely quite as much on age to tell the story. However, children's and YA literature are all based around the development at a specific age, so tell what age that is.

I really like Kate Higgins' suggestion, to indicat...

2009-10-28T03:53:07.112-07:00

I really like Kate Higgins' suggestion, to indicate characters ages through milestones.

My book's main characters are a 32-year-old man and a 29-year-old woman, who both put their careers ahead of relationships and have been dating for three months when the plot starts.

I find myself counting backwards to make sure I know how many years ago they were at various points in their lives, and I guess that people who create vital characters of indeterminate age don't want to have to do this.

The more I write, the more I see that firm detail ...

2009-10-27T20:56:43.845-07:00

The more I write, the more I see that firm detail is very important. The best advice I've taken and not give at every opportunity is "a thing either 'is' or 'is not'" So in this instance, a character is either 27 or 30 or 10.

Posting a comment to this as it is the latest entr...

2009-10-27T13:20:04.202-07:00

Posting a comment to this as it is the latest entry, but I have a question about a previous post regarding writing a manuscript.

Nathan, you talk about having page numbers on every page except chapter pages, but I'm using Word, so, does anyone know how I can do this? Have tried going through page setup and header/footer setup, but no joy.

btw, writing my FIRST DRAFT of my FIRST NOVEL, woohoo!

oh, and, I agree with using thirty-something, but not twenty-something. When people are between the ages of 27 and 37 - they are at that stage where it'd be impossible to guess their age - that's what i think anyways.

Cheers

I should clarify, however, that I always give spec...

2009-10-27T12:17:45.727-07:00

I should clarify, however, that I always give specific ages in my writing.

I understand your point, Nathan. I mean a 21-year-...

2009-10-27T12:15:19.197-07:00

I understand your point, Nathan. I mean a 21-year-old is far different than a 29-year-old, but it doesn't bother me that much. For one thing, even 21-year-olds are different from one another. I've known mature ones that seemed to be in their thirties, and I've known not-so-mature ones that don't seem out of their teen years yet. I figure the dialogue and action will tell me more than a specific age.

Of course, I don't see such expressions as often as you do, I imagine. :-)

In the same vein, would it be ok in a story/query ...

2009-10-27T11:54:40.551-07:00

In the same vein, would it be ok in a story/query to refer to your protags as "college-aged kids"? Or should you be like "College Kid A is 19, College Kid B is also 19, but looks 5."

Idk, I try not to put ages exactly into the text, but giving their age an approximation by saying that they are juniors at university.

Prescience or insanity? It can't be both? Ha. I'...

2009-10-27T11:34:39.525-07:00

Prescience or insanity?

It can't be both?

Ha. I'm joking. I don't even know what that means, I just thought it'd be fun to say.

I think if I were reading queries, this would bother me. I'd be trying to quickly get a detailed sense of the story. Not knowing the age would keep things vague. Also, I'd wonder how well the author knows his own MC, if he doesn't even know their age. Or if he was just trying to be clever, which would probably be irritating after the 5,639th query.

In a book - I pretty much agree with what people said - it depends on the author's intent. It could be used well, or used poorly.

Nathan, it depends on where the phrase is. In one ...

2009-10-27T11:18:24.468-07:00

Nathan, it depends on where the phrase is. In one of my novels, a character assesses another character as "twenty-something" because he cannot know the actual age. Yes, he could also say "in her twenties," but if the quicker phrase communicates, why not?

I think it works well for plurals. Two thirty-som...

2009-10-27T11:13:59.232-07:00

I think it works well for plurals.

Two thirty-something women.

I mean, what are you going to say? Karla is thirty-two and Samantha is thirty-four.

It doesn't bother me, although I think it's the best fit for light fiction.

I also think that "Thirteen Moons" is just Excelle...

2009-10-27T10:39:25.126-07:00

I also think that "Thirteen Moons" is just Excellent in age progression, as an example. And he is very specific.

"Twenty-something, (etc.)" seems more like a casti...

2009-10-27T10:34:20.525-07:00

"Twenty-something, (etc.)" seems more like a casting thing for movies or tv.

It is all about perception. How does the woman/man/child/alien/vampire,etc
look to the other character(s)?

Where it becomes trickiest, for me anyway, is when there is an age progression. The movement from childhood to adulthood so that, um different things can happen while retaining the personality of the character is challenging.
So I think, eighteen may be too young for some activities, twenty-one may still be too young. Twenty-four or twenty-five moreso, twenty-eight is good for the man but the woman should be twenty-four.But then again, where (????) were they between eighteen and twenty-one?
(I could pull my own hair out.)

So the basic question remains: how important is defining just exactly what age that is? It might affect different readers differently. It also might just clutter up the writing, all those factoids. Once they are um of age they are no longer without the right gear.

I agree with Flemmily. I tend to think it means a...

2009-10-27T09:43:38.922-07:00

I agree with Flemmily. I tend to think it means at the older end of the decade mentioned. It implies a caution about telling your age, so the character must have a certain need to be vague about his/her age. Or if the story's setting were, say, in a bureaucratic office with the twenty-somethings being the singles connected to a singles scene after work and the thirty-somethings were the getting married and beginning families crowd, and the forty-somethings were multitasking away their existences between carpooling kids and being involved in extremely competitive careers and the fifty-somethings were struggling with fitness issues, etc. Then the use of it would pigeon hole the author's character into a type not just an age.

I think it depends on the circumstances in the sto...

2009-10-27T09:16:14.739-07:00

I think it depends on the circumstances in the story, and the tone of the book. If the story's being told from the POV of a character who would use that expression, then it's appropriate. Saying either "Yes, you can do that whenever you want" or "No, you can never do that" is massive oversimplification.

Angie

There isn't always a huge difference between a 21 ...

2009-10-27T09:14:52.954-07:00

There isn't always a huge difference between a 21 year old and a 29 year old. Often, for sure, but I'd think that if the author is saying twenty-something, they're saying the character's age isn't something they want to define that character. I would argue it's like leaving out the character's height and weight; sometimes they're important for the story, but often, they're just not.

I would say that if a character is defining him or...

2009-10-27T09:03:09.391-07:00

I would say that if a character is defining him or herself or another character as decade-something, it makes sense. If the author gives the age of a main character in those terms, then it doesn't.

Just an after thought. How do you feel about peopl...

2009-10-27T08:16:53.895-07:00

Just an after thought. How do you feel about people who say things (as I occasionally do) such as "I recently celebrated the twenty fourth anniversary of my thirty ninth birthday"?

taken out of context, it doesn't bother me, perhap...

2009-10-27T07:20:42.129-07:00

taken out of context, it doesn't bother me, perhaps in the mismatched wardrobe of poor writing it would be the glaring sight of a tee shirt tucked into boxers.

The real answer is, of course, "It depends." A st...

2009-10-27T07:14:47.191-07:00

The real answer is, of course, "It depends."

A strong writer who is otherwise selecting words (especially verbs) carefully, can use that bit of vaguery to great effect.

It's a problem when the rest of the writing is also vague and non-specific.

In a sea of specific, a non-specific descriptor can 1) (ironically) stand out or 2) provide a subtle reinforcement of more descriptive statements nearby.

There's cultural information packed inside that phrase. The challenge is to understand the additional meaning so that the phrase is used with deliberate intent and not merely because it was the first thing to leap to mind.

So really, it depends. And I would also add that if you are noticing and are irritated by the use, then it's probably not well done.

I would only use it for groups, as in, "A cluster ...

2009-10-27T06:55:44.489-07:00

I would only use it for groups, as in, "A cluster of twenty-somethings stood by the bar complaining about their jobs."

I think it makes the reader feel like the characte...

2009-10-27T06:22:55.058-07:00

I think it makes the reader feel like the character is ashamed of his age. If you don't say the real age you wonder why that's the case. Just my opinion...