Comments on Nathan Bransford, Author: He Said, She Shouted Loudly

"Wow, here we are many years later and still ...

2011-05-16T23:22:59.377-07:00

"Wow, here we are many years later and still the debate continues." Jane wondered just how far reaching the subject could get.

"This little package might not ever get a bow around it." Knowing the propensity humans have for a good debate, Kim decided just to laugh and move on.

"We'll just have to watch and read." Said Charlie.

Hello. I only started visiting your page recently....

2011-04-27T17:08:03.469-07:00

Hello. I only started visiting your page recently. Thank you so much for all the wonderful info. And I LOVE your sense of humor ;)

In reading the above, I had to wonder about a possible option C.

"How do you feel about adding descriptive details to the word said?" She asked curiously.

"I'm not sure I like it" he said coldly.

"I think it adds emotion" she said hopefully.

"But it could be too wordy" he said slowly.

"Oh, but I love words" she said excitedly.

?? too much?

Did Robert Barr really say...an entire book? I ca...

2010-09-13T17:42:11.858-07:00

Did Robert Barr really say...an entire book?

I cannot stop laughing at his comment. I am seriously going to be returning to this post over and over again just to read what he said.

"Hysterious!" Nine C. said.

teralyn- What happens when writers start using lo...

2010-09-10T08:25:45.407-07:00

teralyn-

What happens when writers start using lots of abnormal dialogue tags is that the reader starts noticing the writing and it distracts them. You want readers to tune out dialogue tags so they're focusing instead on the characters and actions.

When I read your Option A, I didn't really kno...

2010-09-10T06:34:23.410-07:00

When I read your Option A, I didn't really know what was going on (granted, some context would have helped), but when I read Option B, the text came alive. I agree it could have been toned down a bit, but I felt like I was really in the character's heads, really in the scene. Readers tune out the word "said" because it's boring. They certainly listen to the word "enumerated".

When I read your Option A, I didn't really kno...

2010-09-10T06:33:32.564-07:00

I'm way behind on this this, but I have to spe...

2010-09-09T12:55:29.079-07:00

I'm way behind on this this, but I have to speak up anyway. I grew up on classic novels and the creative "saidisms" of Georgette Heyer and her ilk.

Guess what, I love them. I've laughed out loud as often over those as anything else. Scenes with people and expressions were painted for me when the dialog itself didn't manage it.

Like [The Talisman Ring] when Sarah "shrieked artistically" when attacked. We know she's playing a part and this clues in Sir Tristram that she's pulling one over on the Bow Street Runners. The only folks not in the know are the Runners themselves.

I have read the book more than a dozen times and I still laugh when I read it.

I guess my point is dialog is only part of what goes on in a scene. Nothing but words and an endless series of dialog seems an awful lot like watching a play the actors come out an read the lines in monotone. Even the greatest dialog is lost.

Also, I read "XX said" which might be part of my viewpoint. I live and hear good dialog and, yeah, that includes the extra bits that help me know how something's said.

Or maybe it's that my favorite type of humor is sarcasm - which can fall flat unless someone (at least the reader) is in the know.

Maybe I am in the unenlightened class of writers b...

2010-03-11T10:24:46.866-08:00

Maybe I am in the unenlightened class of writers but here is another variation I would like add.

Character said, "Some space monkey."

As opposed to

"Some space monkey." Character said.

Right, wrong, less preferred?

Four years later, people are still commenting on t...

2009-10-14T06:39:36.269-07:00

Four years later, people are still commenting on this.

My memory of this phenomenon is from reading Hardy Boys books. For some reason, Chet Morton - who is a little on the chubby side - always "chortles," rather than speaks. "You guys are so lame," Chet chortled. Cheezy and alliterative at the same time, it bothered me even at a young age.

By the way, kudos to Nathan for posting a topic that can still be commented on 2.5 years in. I wish I had that knack with my own blog...

From a review of The Bourne Identity by Robert Lud...

2009-09-04T12:22:46.136-07:00

From a review of The Bourne Identity by Robert Ludlum

The New York Times, March 11, 1990

…Aside from penning such panting prose, Mr. Ludlum has other peculiarities. For example, he hates the ''he said'' locution and avoids it as much as possible. Characters in ''The Bourne Ultimatum'' seldom ''say'' anything. Instead, they cry, interject, interrupt, muse, state, counter, conclude, mumble, whisper (Mr. Ludlum is great on whispers), intone, roar, exclaim, fume, explode, mutter. There is one especially unforgettable tautology: '' 'I repeat,' repeated Alex.''

The book may sell in the billions, but it's still junk.”

I prefer said, or body language, or nothing at all for the punchier passages of dialogue (I know, I know...all dialogue should be punchy.)

Cheers,
Sheryl

I know I'm a little late to comment on this, b...

2009-09-04T10:35:56.598-07:00

I know I'm a little late to comment on this, but found it in a link on your latest post and just had to join in the discussion!

I prefer to use "said" (or any variation) when it's necessary to clarify who's speaking and there's no action or movement going on. Usually, if there's only two people speaking, I'll clarify who's talking first then alternate quotes assuming that the reader will know who's saying what. I'll add a bit of action from the person speaking to help paint the picture of the dialog and keep the reader certain of who's speaking. Using your example:

"You two really are cowboys," Iceman spat at him.
"What's your problem, Kazanski?"
"You're everyone's problem. That's because every time you go up in the air, you're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous."
"That's right! Ice.... man." Maverick leaned close to Iceman, whispering for added effect. "I am dangerous."

...that's just me, though.

What about Stephenie Meyer? She's a prime exam...

2009-09-03T15:58:48.156-07:00

What about Stephenie Meyer? She's a prime example of someone who uses just about every expression except 'said' in her Twilight saga. I vote for Option A myself, but I just wonder why Option B works so well for others? <- rhetorical question btw.

Points for Buttonman88,for giving a great proof of...

2009-09-03T13:07:09.784-07:00

Points for Buttonman88,for giving a great proof of the invisibility of the word "said" (I never noticed them even when I was following the responses/multiple posts).

I feel people can get away with B as long as it's backed by great writing. And very few writers are/were in the level of greatness.

For now, I personally would be sticking with the A style.

Thanks for the very informative comments.

Oh, and I loved the God query. You should definite...

2009-09-03T11:18:42.512-07:00

Oh, and I loved the God query. You should definitely represent him, Nathan - she said,sarcastically.

My son is 9 and I'm interested to see that cre...

2009-09-03T11:17:38.649-07:00

My son is 9 and I'm interested to see that creative writing as taught according to the British national curriculum encourages the kids to use as many different words instead of said as possible...shouted, exclaimed, murmured, whispered the works, plus tons of adverbs and adventurous punctuation.
I'm not sure when they teach them to take it all out, but he's always getting homework where he has to replace all the 'saids' in dialogue with 'more interesting words'.

Anyway, I prefer 'said' or nothing at all, but I'm quite fond of adverbs. The occasional 'grimly' or 'morosely' is fine I think.

The headings of all the comments here is _______ S...

2009-09-03T09:47:05.605-07:00

The headings of all the comments here is _______ SAID!!!!

Has no one enumerated this thusfar?

A! A! A! But once in awhile if things are really ...

2009-08-21T21:38:21.598-07:00

A! A! A!

But once in awhile if things are really heating up it's nice to use a word like "hissed" or my personal favorite "grated." Also a "whispered" every now and then; the reader can't always tell that.

As a reader, I have to disagree with Camp A, and f...

2009-06-24T21:57:09.624-07:00

As a reader, I have to disagree with Camp A, and firmly say that Camp B is the better way to go. While it often is apparent, I find it excruciatingly annoying to see words repeated often. A perfect example: a friend recently recommended I read the book Graceling. She raved about the book, claiming an amazing plot is amazing, stellar character development, with the only downfall being some repetitive dialog. If I had finished the book, I'd probably agree. I really tried, but after counting over 100 instances of said by roughly chapter 5 (I can't recall now), I just couldn't finish the book. Readers aren't idiots (because idiots don't read). Readers don't need to reminded with repetitive instances of said. Leave repetition to marketing and advertising.

Rowling is firmly in camp B. Depends on the class ...

2009-06-15T21:24:22.597-07:00

Rowling is firmly in camp B. Depends on the class of fiction . . . and how many books you want to sell I suppose ;-).

Oh. Sorry for the deleted comments. I'm now s...

2009-06-12T08:43:39.112-07:00

Oh. Sorry for the deleted comments.

I'm now so used to type -> read -> edit -> preview -> edit -> post -> edit -> read -> edit -> repost -> FUHGEDDABOUDIT!

A bad habit, I know. But at least I love editing and rewriting. That counts for something, doesn't it?

Oh hey. 2 years later and people are still leaving...

2009-06-12T08:39:54.591-07:00

Oh hey. 2 years later and people are still leaving comments for this post. It's like what Stephen King said in his book On Writing. Writing is actually telepathy. You transcend time and space, you weave an image and people you've never seen will see it. Nathan, you should be proud of yourself. You're a telepath!

So, anyway. I used to hate using 'said' all the time. I felt it repetitive. I went creative with all the substitutes.

Then I started reading books on writing, and all of them encourage the 'A' Camp. 'Said' is used to identify who the speaker is. Use the dialogue itself to convey your tone, your message. Show, don't tell. Also, use actions to create breaks in the dialogue so it doesn't feel like ethereal beings are conversing, but not in every line that it stalls the flow of the dialogue.

That being said, the books also state that rules are meant to be broken, if you know them in the first place.

Now, I either don't use ["..." (Character) said] at all, or I use [said]. And when needed, I use something like [whispered]. And I find that my storytelling has improved, partly because of this.

__________________________________

I say, Mary is a telepath as well. I almost got a cardio laughing at her interpretation of Nathan's Top Gun snippet as an X-Men conversation.

Iceman doesn't use a shield, by the way. Not usually. He builds an ice wall to fend off attacks. But this move gets nullified with characters like Pyro.

__________________________________

Quoted from John B:

Throw me in the said shed, too, for the most part, but, obviously, sometimes you don't need even said at all and sometimes you need more.

"What the hell are you doing here?" Vinnie asked.

but maybe this doesn't convey the correct tone for this specific statement, so sometimes...

"What the hell are you doing here," Vinnie whispered.

maybe even...

"What the hell are you doing here?" Vinnie whispered loudly.

because a loud whisper is a distinct type of whisper, a silly one, but distinct...

so probably not...

"What the hell are you doing here?" Vinnie whispered quietly.

because this is a standard issue whisper.

Methinks, instead of all that, why not this:
"What the hell are you doing here?" Vinnie hissed.

People would register the act 'hissing' as a loud whisper, probably with an angry and/or surprised note, and it also conveys the mood.

In Strunk and White, as well as in other books, the authors always say that every word counts. Choose the ones that best convey your message.

That being said, I now follow the 'said' camp, but not strictly. I love breaking rules, after all.

And Nathan, I thank all the monkeys that yanked my cardboard-colored paper camera off my hands when I was in Primary School for leading me to your blog.

Oh. I thank you as well for writing this blog.

Y(>.<)Y

Cheers!

Fadz.

2009-06-12T08:36:24.583-07:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

jenna- I would, except that I feel it's a fai...

2009-06-11T13:02:33.705-07:00

jenna-

I would, except that I feel it's a fairly educational look into an agent's inbox. More like a cautionary tale, but educational all the same.

can that long-ass submission comment be deleted? S...

2009-06-11T13:01:07.819-07:00

can that long-ass submission comment be deleted? Seriously, I had to scroll for almost two minutes to get to real comments again.

Wow. I'm glad I'm not an agent today. I li...

2009-06-10T08:29:04.407-07:00

Wow. I'm glad I'm not an agent today. I like my inbox to have just a few emails in it, all from people I already know, and none of them more than a few hundred words. Unless my sister is going to tell me why she HAS to break up with her boyfriend, and my mom is upset, because she never even met him...you get the point. Things that are interesting.