Comments on Nathan Bransford - Literary Agent: Novel Word Count

Wow! Talk about hitting a nerve. I am currently on...

2010-02-27T20:37:30.968-08:00

Wow! Talk about hitting a nerve. I am currently on the last chapter of a sci-fi/horror novel that is at 133K words. I do make the mistake of editing as I go (can't help myself), so there has been some trimming. I am a huge fan of say more with less (this post notwithstanding), but I will have to decide if some sections are really necessary to the story or do I just like killing people? I would be done if I stopped surfing the net.......

I'm writing the first of 7 books in a series of sc...

2010-02-10T10:03:54.751-08:00

I'm writing the first of 7 books in a series of sc-fi/fantasy novels for middle grade (they don't fit into either genre completely so I'm going to have fun trying to explain them to the agent) and I'm aiming for a nice round 100k to begin with. Once I'm happy enough that it's good content, I'll look at anything else that's needs trimming to smarten it up. At that stage it's hack and slash time and I have to br brutal! I always end up cutting bits and pieces out during editing, so I'll probabaly end up with something in the high 80-90k range for the finished product. Not sure if it helps anyone else, but that process seems to work for me.

I tried re-writing my first novel because it was "...

2009-09-10T13:16:52.988-07:00

I tried re-writing my first novel because it was "too-long". I tried elliminating characters and events and made a terrible mess. I made a second attempt and again created a mess.

I put it away and wrote another novel which was not so big.

My wife loved the first one and insisted I go back to it.

I went back, decided to keep all the characters and events in place, but tried trimming it a bit and it grew about 400 words.

So I find Nathans site, he says he doesn't worry too much about size (whew that is a relief) as long as it's not over 150,000 words. Yikes! I'm at arond 164,000 words.

So, who has the list of agents that WON'T automatically reject a manuscript on size?

Or (drum roll please)...
Should I send out the first 120,000 words, hope to get them hooked and then offer them the ending?

Fortunately, my second book won't take long to finsh revisions, I guess I'll just keep sending querries on the first. As long as I keep to e-mail, there's no cost.

Hi, Nathan, I have a quick question: What is the...

2009-09-02T06:00:32.414-07:00

Hi, Nathan, I have a quick question:

What is the standard length for a first-time thriller or action/adventure novel?

I know I'm very later replying to this post, but I...

2009-07-05T20:38:53.255-07:00

I know I'm very later replying to this post, but I wanted some guidance on word count and this is the most useful and entertaining thing I've found so far!

Underneath it all, I know that a novel should be whatever length it needs to be to tell a compelling story in an interesting voice. Right now, my murder mystery is shaping up to be about 60-70,000 words, which is about the length of an Agatha Christie novel. I can only hope it's as good as one...

"or because you need to take your laptop into the ...

2009-05-18T13:21:51.492-07:00

"or because you need to take your laptop into the shop to fix the Backspace button"

Okay - that just cracked me up out loud! And I certainly needed it as I'm deep into writing a query letter.

Thanks for all the generous advice here.

I'm writing what I hope to be a teen fiction, and ...

2009-05-11T02:16:26.855-07:00

I'm writing what I hope to be a teen fiction, and am currently on 15885, which I know is way too low, but I still have a lot of her story to tell!
Would somewhere around that 100,000 mark be reasonable for the final word count?
Thanks a bunch!
Dee

Word counts are such a tricky thing and I hate tha...

2009-04-26T14:25:06.143-07:00

Word counts are such a tricky thing and I hate that as a writer you really do need to worry about them. I spent much time googling word counts which actually led me to Mr. Bransford's blog and it seems like everyone has a different answer to what is considered the appropriate word count for an unpublished author.

But the clear consensus is you shouldn't go over 100,000 words and you should come in at under 70,000 words. If you manage to get your manuscript in that sweet spot you are less likely to meet rejection do to first impressions and the first impression of any manuscript is its word count. It's the same if you were to go into a book store and pick up a 300 page novel and a 1000 page novel, it's the very first thing you notice.

I finished my manuscript coming in at just 65,000 words which I know can be frowned upon as too short. It an effort to increase my word count to something more in the normal acceptance range I actually ended up writing one of my favorite chapters of the entire book.

I was worried about padding for padding's sake just to meet some arbitrary idea of how long a novel should be. But in an effort to increase my word count I did find out my novel was too short and that there was something more too add.

You also have to understand it from an agent's perspective if the novel is 300,000 words that means a lot of work to try and sell the novel. They could read three or four manuscripts in the time it takes them to read yours and then they still have to convince publishers the novel is worthy of such a huge word count.

You are going to likely have to knock their socks off with your query letter just to get them to consider spending four times the time and effort they would have spent on a normal client with a normal length manuscript.

And I am sure editing a manuscript of that size is a nightmare.

The same goes for manuscripts that fall in the category of being too short. They have to spend more time convincing publishers that your work is worthy despite its lack of depth and word count.

But in the end its all up to us as writers to determine if our manuscripts are too long or too short. Is there too much story or not enough and what can we do about it. I refuse to add chapters and story just to increase word count and if I were to write a 200,000 word manuscript I would hate to cut anything that I felt was essential to the story.

Word counts are a nightmare. They cause undo stress and until we are as big as Stephen King or JK Rowling or any author who is popular enough that they can sell massive tomes or short and concise manuscripts and be worry free about their lengths it is a nightmare we have to live and deal with.

I am glad Mr. Bransford doesn't worry about word counts so much but he is likely in the minority in that aspect.

Interesting comments. My first novel (yet to be p...

2009-04-21T06:16:59.513-07:00

Interesting comments. My first novel (yet to be published) was 173K words in first draft. Had several folks read it and make comments and by the time I got through draft 5 it is now 223K words.
Seems everyone I talk to wants big long books. They say they want shorter, less descriptive which is my preference (everyone can picture a leaf falling and we don't need to describe it) but when they critique they always seem to think something is left out.

NathanThank you so much for this blog. I am writin...

2009-03-01T09:51:52.745-08:00

Nathan

Thank you so much for this blog. I am writing my first novels at this moment in time. One is being Co-Written with a published author, the other is my baby. I've been writing for TV and film for the last 20 years - So moving on to writing novels has been a fascinating process. I have learned so much already from reading your blog.

I now understand why my own agent [UK] has taken so long to read my first three chapters and proposal document. I need to finish the MS.

LOL.

Once again thank you.

Thanks for the FAQ on word counts. I'm starting t...

2009-02-27T13:49:15.713-08:00

Thanks for the FAQ on word counts. I'm starting to edit my first novel and it was about 145,000 words (suspense genre). I thought it was too long at first, but by my estimates it'll wind out around 300 to 350 book length pages and so I'm completely unconcerned now. Cheers!

Nathan - I have a question that worries me becaus...

2009-01-19T17:45:25.254-08:00

Nathan

- I have a question that worries me because it may be the reason why I'm still not published!!! What do you feel is obvious signs of insanity? I have a feeling that's my problem. Not that I'm insane but some may feel that my story is probably kind of crazy.

(BTW I haven't sent you a query because I just found your agency but I'll give it try. Can't hurt can it?)

Mr. Bransford - First, thank you for posting such ...

2009-01-14T16:46:03.640-08:00

Mr. Bransford - First, thank you for posting such a helpful and informative blog. I'm sure you are a busy man, and I truly appreciate the information.

My question is, once I have gone through the step of completing a first draft of a novel that is geared toward young adults and slightly older, what is the first step toward publication? Should I hire an agent? Get a copyright first? Just send it to the publishing companies?

Again, your info is greatly appreciated!

I tend to write concisely, or so I'm told. I like ...

2008-09-17T18:04:32.436-07:00

I tend to write concisely, or so I'm told. I like to get my arms around an impression rather than throw everything I can on the wall so that some of it sticks in the reader's senses. I'm selling something, in a way, and I want to keep the line tight, but not too tight.

At the same time, I like sentences with tons of rhythm. The reader should slide down them, hitting all the appropriate bumps. So it's a balancing act to get my vision across without working everything into one sentence. But a great, meaty and slightly dense sentence is so important to me, and it's very much a part of my style.

I think my latest will come out a little over 60k and I'm afraid to beef it up because I feel it will weaken it. Here's hoping what Nathan says holds true: to thine own story – and style – be true.

I'm working on a novel that's targeted towards old...

2008-09-12T21:41:29.627-07:00

I'm working on a novel that's targeted towards older teens and so far I'm at 30,000 words typed on Chapter 15. If I continue at that pace I'll be at roughly 50,000 words by the end. This makes me feel pretty good.

I tend to admire authors like Hemmingway and Cormac McCarthy who write more with less. I have participated in online text based roleplaying and watch people describe the details of the same characters' backstories in every post just to fill space. We dub it a "Case of the Dickens." I personally hate to read pages and pages of description, especially if it doesn't seem to enrich the story.

Do you have a preferred word count for first novel...

2008-06-26T09:57:31.477-07:00

Do you have a preferred word count for first novels? One agent told me editors are currently looking for 83,000 words for first time novels. Do you share this view? Is 84-85,000 too long? I'm talking for historical fantasy (not epic).

Thanks

Would you say 90,ooo words on a first novel is wit...

2008-06-09T08:24:33.534-07:00

Would you say 90,ooo words on a first novel is within reason? The genre is probably considered suspense/horror fiction. Stephen King-esque as far as the book's genre, not the writing.
Also, will it help or hurt that I'm 18 when I begin to look for representation?

I truly love this blog... It fills me with warm f...

2008-05-11T18:01:46.787-07:00

I truly love this blog... It fills me with warm fuzzies and cold tremors all at the same time. I recently finished a choose-your-own-adventure story geared for a young adult fantasy audience. With three main story arcs at about 70,000 words each, it means a large work in the end, 217,000. Yeah... I guess it needs a diet...

I know I'm late to this party, but I saw fit to ad...

2008-03-21T09:29:01.902-07:00

I know I'm late to this party, but I saw fit to add. I got boofed by one agent because she said she would only consider first novels if they were 84,000 words or shorter. (I'm guessing 84K/280 words per page = 300 pages).

And now I hear they have to be at least 80,000? Crazy man, crazy.

Tight word counts make sense in newspapers and magazines, but who ever bought a book only if it was between 285 and 300 pages long?

I got out my copy of War and Peace, did some math,...

2008-03-09T09:29:34.134-07:00

I got out my copy of War and Peace, did some math, and came up with a word count of about 700,000. So, if Tolstoy signed his name to a query dated today, I suppose things would have turned out a bit differently for him. Well okay then, I'll just have to consider it some kind of concilation to be in such lofty company.

Nathan, great posts about word counts. I've come ...

2008-02-29T22:24:37.183-08:00

Nathan, great posts about word counts. I've come to be very flexable with them. My first rough draft of my werewolf story was 175,000 and let's face it, I'm not Stephen King. Chopping it down to 125,000 was a challenge, but I did it. Love your blog. Rock on. Steph

Benwaw--Why is it that fantasy works tend to run s...

2008-02-27T21:09:18.993-08:00

Benwaw--

Why is it that fantasy works tend to run so long? Not a criticism, just curious.

For me, it takes me a while to tell my story and reveal my world in an interesting manner. Kind of like a slow strip tease as one writer said.

Fantasies take a bit longer to set the scenes since the reader is new to the world.

Having said that, my suspense novel hit at 406 pages, which is probably long. In my defense, it was set in a world not familiar to many people.

I'm glad agents like Nathan aren't completely locked into predetermined molds. Sometimes it just takes a bit longer to tell the story.

Julie
Julie

I'll echo what Jason Evans said about the 250 word...

2008-02-27T11:14:33.985-08:00

I'll echo what Jason Evans said about the 250 words/page in Courier 12. It was the industry standard prior to the ease of changing fonts and formats with word processing, and it lets the publisher get a sense of how big (physically) the book's going to be. I also appreciate the easy math: 4 pages = 1000 words.

But in the end, a book's going to be as long as it needs to be to tell the story with an economy of wrods.

w/r/t the length of fantasy novels: I always thought it had something to do with the characters having names like "Eldregran, son of Zuckerkandl the Blacksmith the fabled Stone of Quantificatt" instead of "Bob."

anon-Very good point, although THE HISTORIAN was E...

2008-02-27T10:24:10.471-08:00

anon-

Very good point, although THE HISTORIAN was Elizabeth Kostova's first novel and it was extremely long. I think the basic point is that it's harder to get a long novel published, especially for a first novel, but it can be done and done well.

Neal Stephenson published several well-received bo...

2008-02-27T10:21:23.938-08:00

Neal Stephenson published several well-received books that were the "ordinary" length before Cryptonomicon.

Jonathan Franzen published at least one well-reviewed book that was the "ordinary" length before The Corrections.

The rules are different for successful published writers and first-timers.

The first Harry Potter book is about 80K words; the last is about 200K.