Comments on Nathan Bransford - Literary Agent: Themes Schmemes

Is this where I admit that what I secretly want is...

2009-10-31T17:56:39.437-07:00

Is this where I admit that what I secretly want is to write an extraordinary novel which will only be discovered and appreciated as it deserves to be after my death? I just think that is the epitome of the Great Artist's Journey - to be misunderstood, overlooked and rejected, only for people to recognise your genius when it is too late. Plus at least that way you never have to go on any daytime TV talk shows.

Hmmm. Great question: Artist or craftsman? Artist...

2009-10-31T11:24:01.231-07:00

Hmmm. Great question: Artist or craftsman?

Artists create. Writers create.

Artists' creations are self-expression. So are writers' creations.

Artists' work may only take a moment to experience, but writers require a commitment of time from those who would experience the work. Writers have to hone and plane down their work to the point where it will hold the reader and involve them on a much deeper level than the work of visual artists.

On the other hand, owning a fine set of tools and skilled hands may not guarantee good results when the medium is words. The finish may be smooth and clean, the design may be attractive, but if it doesn't do anything, it might as well be ... craft.

There is a range of skill and application in writing as there is in any of the human arts, with hacks on one end, and artists on the other. It takes skillful manipulation and handling to turn a story into art, but it also takes spirit, which is the spark that may or may not be learned. In the exact same way that not every stroke of color from a brush is art, or even creative work. Some is just paint.

I'd love to print your blog out and give it to all...

2009-10-31T05:20:28.814-07:00

I'd love to print your blog out and give it to all the English teachers my kids have now and have ever had. They can easily kill the love of reading for kids.
Was talking to my son's tutor this summer. My son will read To Kill a Mockingbird this year. The tutor went on and on and about the symbolism of it. I loved that book, but only because it was a good story. And I identified with Scout.
And yes, I'd rather write something people want to read.

The first thing I write every morning, before work...

2009-10-28T16:54:58.242-07:00

The first thing I write every morning, before working on my novel or a short story or whatever, is a message on my whiteboard: "Artisan at work." May seem corny, but it helps put me in mind to create something that others can also appreciate.

I guess I don't see it at odds with "literary fiction"--but neither is it "artsy."

Holy Bejesus! Did I ever miss a fun debate yesterd...

2009-10-28T15:43:38.486-07:00

Holy Bejesus! Did I ever miss a fun debate yesterday?!

That'll teach me to have work to do.

Wow, I was debating just this thing in my head. T...

2009-10-28T15:08:19.503-07:00

Wow, I was debating just this thing in my head. Thanks!

I have observed some interesting responses in my c...

2009-10-28T11:35:24.923-07:00

I have observed some interesting responses in my crit group.
The group is eclectic and all are smart, educated, well read, informed, and open minded.

The esoteric writing is admired in pieces and rarely understood as a whole. The typical response is that it makes the reader work too hard.

The enthusiasm in the group for someone's writing seems to escalate when there is a fast moving, followable plot AND the writing is delicious, conveys the writer's voice well, AND–like the plot should be–is also followable.

i.e., If it reads like a beautifully filmed well-timed, strongly plotted movie.

Do you lose yourself in it and come away breathless?

The theme is the juicy stuff you take to the coffee house afterwards. I love the underlying levels, but the plot is what carries everything. (I have been learning how not to hide the plot!!)

If you didn't give a ____ what people thought, you...

2009-10-28T10:41:13.595-07:00

If you didn't give a ____ what people thought, you wouldn't respond to them or post at all.

Hey, so I was sort of skimming the Anons above. I...

2009-10-28T10:14:38.195-07:00

Hey, so I was sort of skimming the Anons above. It all started running together in terms of: angry person who thinks publishing sucks and isn't really interested in what anyone else is saying. But then I noticed something important:

I'm a minion.

Awesome. That is so cool.

I've always wanted to be a minion. I don't know exactly what a minion does, but whatever it is, I want to do it.

So, what are my job duties? What's my first minion-like assignment. I'm ready to be brain-washed, bring it on.

Also, sorry to bring this up so early in my new minion job, but do minions have health insurance? Because I have this weird feeling in my toe. I think I need to have it looked at.

(Note: If this post is deleted, I shall accept it like a good little minion, who is feeling playful.)

Anon 9:51, I feel your pain, but... what you're t...

2009-10-28T10:12:28.431-07:00

Anon 9:51,

I feel your pain, but... what you're talking about is a massive, unregulated slushpile full of millions of titles, much of which will be terrible. And the general customer (who is not a hardcore bookperson) does not want to wade through millions of titles trying to find one good book to take on vacation... they want to snag a book off a bestseller's table on the way to the local GAP store.

I mean, who's scanning through all the Lulu titles looking for their next read?

Just my take.

By 'BS' I mean that the industry's narrow mindedne...

2009-10-28T09:51:06.127-07:00

By 'BS' I mean that the industry's narrow mindedness has become so pervasive at all levels that it now has a bizarre personality cult feel to it.

Its revolting and totally counter to an environment where artists and art can thrive.

So my final advice to aspiring artists is ignore the admonitions of agents. Read prolifically first and decide what you like and want to write, then write what YOU want and write everyday.

If you desire to write commercial, fine, then do that, but don't let anyone tell you that's your only option if you desire otherwise.

good luck

Authors, lets all imagine what exactly I have envi...

2009-10-28T09:39:01.089-07:00

Authors, lets all imagine what exactly I have envisioned as actually occurring:

What it would mean is that you would "query" and "pitch" your work directly to the consumer. You'd provide a query and sample and still be blurbed by others, basically all self marketed totally. Authors would be categorized and combined by genre etc etc etc. Just imagine it.

The success of your work would be purely a function of the quality and appeal of your own writing and your own efforts to market it.

Talk about "democratization"!

Oh, BTW - I am a current "traditionally" pubbed author sick of pub house BS.

anon@9:26- I'm not sure why you keep denigrating ...

2009-10-28T09:34:46.209-07:00

anon@9:26-

I'm not sure why you keep denigrating my tastes since they run toward the literary, and all of my upcoming titles skew literary, even the ones that are genre fiction.

As I said further up in the thread, my intent wasn't to celebrate mass appeal over everything else. All I'm saying is that the current trend in culture and in the industry is moving toward accessibility over the esoteric. Don't conflate that with my own likes and dislikes.

Anon at 9:24: You are assuming that I refer only ...

2009-10-28T09:30:14.718-07:00

Anon at 9:24:

You are assuming that I refer only to digitally available media.

Quite to the contrary, there will come a day when one can peruse, sample, and choose online one's own tastes directly from authors and consortiums of authors, then if one chooses, order and instantly on demand printed hardcopy book be sent directly to you, all sans agents and trad. pub houses.

That will be a blissful day!

Correct. I should use the term "agents" and "publi...

2009-10-28T09:26:28.989-07:00

Correct. I should use the term "agents" and "publisher" interchangeably, given that they are really cut from the same cloth. I actually wonder how many agents came out of a background in the pub houses originally. 50+% at least I bet, so what's the difference, really? I mean you're basically selling a colleague who is like minded.

And no, I am not Gordon. Obviously he has no problem posting his very candid opinions under his own name, so it makes no sense to assume that anything I have said is anymore candid requiring anonymity were I him. Grief! Seems you would do well to read something a bit more demanding intellectually yourself.

The publication marketplace is diffusing toward di...

2009-10-28T09:24:06.918-07:00

The publication marketplace is diffusing toward digital delivery of literature, but I think that's just a passing fascination trend with prestige and convenience appeal. The real strength of paper publication is it delivers the most personal, intimate, individual reading experience available, what makes reading meaningful to begin with. Digital publication technology creates an added degree or two of reader alienation from a text.

All very interesting. As often happens with me, I ...

2009-10-28T09:22:43.068-07:00

All very interesting. As often happens with me, I find myself on the fence. I would like to sell a million copies but I would also like to be remembered a hundred or two years from now. Which want is wrong? Either? Neither? This could give a guy a headache.

I have signed up for NaNoWriMo (first time, wheeee!) and the novel I have in mind could easily lend itself to dense and inaccessable(?) but I hope the speed at which I will have to write it will force me to take a lighter and, hopefully, more readable path.

Anyway, good thread. I'm off to lay in provisions for next month. Must have coffee and munchies.

Word Ver: wignoc - Is that anything like a Gibbs slap to the back of the head?

Title of an MFA CRW thesis: It's a wooden leg, Ish...

2009-10-28T09:15:48.671-07:00

Title of an MFA CRW thesis: It's a wooden leg, Ishmael, get the literal meaning down and the figurative will follow. Ahab's peg leg is a whale bone.
----
Not all that long ago the Big Six publishers still accepted unsolicited manuscripts. Agents weren't gatekeepers. (The Six Sisters, transnational publishing corporations, Bertelsmann, CBS Corporation, Hachette, News Corporation, Pearson and Verlagsgruppe. The Big Six U.S. conglomerates, Random House, Inc., Penguin Putnam, Inc.,
HarperCollins, Holtzbrinck Publishing Holdings, Time Warner,
Simon & Schuster, Inc., circa 2008) Not all that long before the big houses stopped accepting unsolicited manuscripts, literary agents were few and far between. Thousands now. It wasn't all that far in the distant past that writing workshops didn't exist. And not too terribly long ago, there weren't any book publishers as we know them today, just job shop book printers and binders. The advent of mass market and trade paperbacks in the early 20th Century changed the literature landscape. Technology changed the process markedly in the 20th Century. The one certainty of the future is change.

1947 357 publishers
2009 90,000 publishers with active ISBNs.

anon (or should I say Gordon)- If your criteria f...

2009-10-28T09:15:08.635-07:00

anon (or should I say Gordon)-

If your criteria for the excellence is that more books are published than ever before and readers get to decide what they want to read... guess what. More books are published than ever before every single year.

But hey - I agree, the industry's in for a major reckoning. Information can be delivered a lot easier when it's not bound in paper. The newspapers are figuring this out now, people will soon migrate over for most books too. It's going to be wildly different.

And I wouldn't fixate on agents - it's not our tastes that are on the shelves, it's publishers' tastes. I've said it once, I'll say it again: I can't force a publisher to buy anything.

I don't think it matters if you're writing literar...

2009-10-28T09:08:32.051-07:00

I don't think it matters if you're writing literary or commercial fiction, theme has to come out of character. And should always be subtle.
As a writer, you don't consciously choose a theme. You put well drawn characters into a story idea. The main character has deep issues and beliefs to explore through the story narrative and those explorations will (if written well) be left in the mind of the reader at the end of the story.

Superior? In what regard? Perhaps according to YO...

2009-10-28T09:04:18.479-07:00

Superior? In what regard?

Perhaps according to YOUR tastes and those of your profession.

Unlike most of your minions here on this board, some people still like a little depth and meaning and !GASP! buy those books.

Why? Because life is more than just about titillation, clever short-lived gratification, though there's nothing wrong with those ends in moderation.

Some of us actually think that in order for life to be full and whole that we need some things that are provocative, inspiring, and involve a little elucidation of life's quandaries and, yes, "themes".

We are 5-10 years away from the death of the publishing industry as we know it. No, not just a changed industry, but actual dodo bird, pony express extinction.

There will come a time very soon where we can all explore our own tastes (rather than peruse bookshelves filled with the tastes of agents) and pick and choose what we want and obtain it instantly.

Everything Just Makes Me Laugh I remember when I ...

2009-10-28T09:04:13.109-07:00

Everything Just Makes Me Laugh

I remember when I was getting my MFA (in poetry) - I had a job in the art department. One of the people running the art department commented, re: painting, "everything that can be done to a canvas has already been done." And I had a friend who was an MFA student in painting - sitting right there, and I saw the look on his face - hurt? shock? disappointment? - what was that expression on his face when he heard those words?

***

Has everything that can be done to a printed page (or a Kindle screen) already been done?

*** (guess I'm in an asterisk-y mode today)

And then, I think when people criticize "literary" fiction, really, they are talking about "academic" fiction - I mean, just think of the thousands of people employed (that is, getting paid) right now! at this moment! to deconstruct, recontextualize, interpret, obfuscate, and in general analyze "literary" texts - at universities across the country - and in this particular line of employment, obviously, you're going to gravitate towards really complex texts, sans plot almost, because that's how you can best demonstrate your analytical chops, and get more money in your paycheck!! Woo-hoo!!

Well, I don't want to sound completely cynical (sure, why not!) - but definitely in poetry (which NB does not represent, and I assume the major reason is, there's no PAYING audience for it, in sufficient numbers), because it is so embedded in the analycentric (that's analysis + centric, although the word does seem to inadvertently reference an anatomical nether region) - in the analycentric "academy," narrative and plot are way down the list of admirable qualities in a poem, and complexity, even incomprehensibility, are way up! Because that gives you something to write about in your papers for literary journals, AND something to "teach" your students in the classroom.

Nature abhors a vacum!

***

Yes, this is the kind of comment that pours forth, when you have orange-flavored dark chocolate for breakfast.

Well, to boil it all down - there's a small market for obscure literary fiction (and poetry) within the "academy." That's where the (small amount of) money is for that kind of fiction/poetry. Luckily for fiction, there's all other kinds of stuff that people will pay money for. Poetry, not so much (although I loved the Pushkin-flavored Golden Gate poenovel...poemovel? Rhymes too much with hovel...)

Anyway, that is my chocolate-flavored opinion this morning (er, noon).

Wanda B.

anon- You're taking what I said way too far. It's...

2009-10-28T08:51:33.604-07:00

anon-

You're taking what I said way too far. It's not that everything has become debased and that publishers no longer care about quality. They do - they care immensely, and I think the intense competition to get onto the bookshelf is resulting in superior books overall. Ever read the pulps of another era? They're almost laughable by today's standards.

People always think that everything is getting worse - I don't think they are getting worse. They're just changing.

Glad you said that. I hadn't given theme a second ...

2009-10-28T08:50:54.934-07:00

Glad you said that. I hadn't given theme a second thought - until my novel was published. The book is read primarily by students who have to write book reports. They asked me what my theme was. After lengthy consideration I discovered a theme and a motif - whew!
I suspect theme often emerges as the story unfolds but I have no intention of making theme a starting point. Thank you very much for your thoughts on this.

Gordon has a point. If you accept Nathan's own a...

2009-10-28T08:45:01.864-07:00

Gordon has a point.

If you accept Nathan's own argument then he's pounding the nails into the coffin of his own profession. If we no longer need agents to screen for quality and simply judge works based on "sell-ability" then we only need publish those works that pass a "democratization" standard.

And we don't need agents to do that. With instant feedback via the web, one can find works of popularity instantly. Take Urbis as one of many examples where works can be posted and read for free and "rated."

Agents have relinquished their own value in that they have become nothing more than gatekeepers of their own tastes, which has increasingly become monolithic in its triteness.