Comments on Nathan Bransford - Literary Agent: A Quick Note About Word Count

Guys, as far as I'm concerned, this matter is done...

2008-05-22T21:53:22.927-07:00

Guys, as far as I'm concerned, this matter is done. Time to move on, and I'm closing this thread.

Thanks for understanding, Michele, although at thi...

2008-05-22T21:32:55.503-07:00

Thanks for understanding, Michele, although at this point in the contest I think we'll hold here.

I did feel that with all the flap over this I shou...

2008-05-22T21:19:18.753-07:00

I did feel that with all the flap over this I should make it clear that, while I knew I had a few too many words, it wasn't an attempt to be underhanded in any way! I just liked the dialog the way it was, and so that's what I submitted.

I am disappointed to be disqualified, but totally understand. Perhaps one of the other runners up can have their work posted in my stead?

Well Michele, that's frustrating to hear because I...

2008-05-22T20:54:52.736-07:00

Well Michele, that's frustrating to hear because I had defended this on the assumption that they were accidental mistakes, just as I didn't knowingly let people go over their word count. So Michele, even though most of the voting is in -- I gotta officially disqualify you, and I can't help you with one of the prizes. It's only fair to the people who knowingly adhered to the rules. An honest mistake is one thing, this is another.

I hope you do compete in the future, and for what it's worth I actually think you didn't need to go over to make the finals.

Alright, I'll pipe up. Since I was one of the offe...

2008-05-22T20:44:06.801-07:00

Alright, I'll pipe up. Since I was one of the offending extra-word-users, let me just say that I did that knowing I was breaking the "rule". Yep, I did it on purpose.

But the dialog worked better with the "extra" words, and I took a chance. If Nathan had disqualified me for that, I would have understood. Without whining, by the way.

I think the contest was a blast, and really do appreciate Nathan's efforts! And if he has another contest, I'll enter that one too--and I might just break another rule. Just warning you.

We're lucky we get these cool contests so often. I...

2008-05-22T20:09:47.153-07:00

We're lucky we get these cool contests so often. I think I goofed up myself. I didn't understand the rules 100%. In any case it kind of gives us insight into the kind of stuff that you like doesn't it? It means more queries for you.

I see your grand master plan Nathan Bransford.

*off to check final grades for uni courses* Yikes!

Wow, I can't believe people are tripping over this...

2008-05-22T19:31:21.292-07:00

Wow, I can't believe people are tripping over this Word Count thing. I entered for the fun of it. I wasn't looking to win, which is why I posted such a different entry from the rest. I was looking to see if I could come up with an entry that made sense at 250 words.

My original blogpost was over 1200 words. The conversation was close to 380. I pared it down to 254 (oops, I went over by 4 words.) The dialogue still made sense.

A very big learning lesson for me. I can make dialogue without so much filler taking up unnecessary space.

Southern Writer-Already beat you to that one. I h...

2008-05-22T19:20:58.629-07:00

Southern Writer-

Already beat you to that one. I had a post titled "The First Rule In Publishing: There Are No Rules."

I think it was fun and people need to remember the...

2008-05-22T19:00:26.013-07:00

I think it was fun and people need to remember the old adage: "It's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game." And that means good sportsmanship folks.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to play, Nathan.

I am also grateful to Mr. Bransford for these cont...

2008-05-22T18:57:16.238-07:00

I am also grateful to Mr. Bransford for these contest opportunities and appreciate the time and energy he spends with them. I pointed out a contestant's word count earlier, which exceeded the rule by 34 words. I did not disparage Mr. Bransford in that comment, and I do not wish to. However, here is a recent excerpt from another literary agent's blog which run's similar contests to Mr. Bransford's, and which may explain why some people are concerned about the rules:

We went through and made our list of top picks. We agreed on three entries. Then I decided to check the word count. To this point, we’d been trusting that everyone was abiding by the rules. We hadn’t been militant about checking it. But when it became clear that other commenters were noticing the length, we decided we needed to look into it. Unfortunately, two of the three contestants disqualified themselves by going over the 100 words, so this made picking the winner a no-brainer. If it came down to just two or three extra words, we may have let it slide (after all, we’re English/Journalism majors . . . we can sympathize with the mathematically challenged), but both were over by more than 15 words. We just couldn’t ignore that, and to be honest we were disappointed and irritated. Due to that situation, there isn’t a runner-up for the category. Honorable mentions will be featured tomorrow.

So that can explain why many of us were very careful to edit our pieces to a 250 word limit and noticed when others did not. It doesn't mean we have to blow this all out of proportion, but it does make a concern about the rules understandable.

The next time you get a query for work you don't r...

2008-05-22T18:48:38.509-07:00

The next time you get a query for work you don't represent, Nathan, don't come crying on your blog about it...

:-P

Uh oh. I see a bit of conflict here, Nathan. All a...

2008-05-22T18:26:16.575-07:00

Uh oh. I see a bit of conflict here, Nathan. All agencies post submissions guidelines and all blogging agents complain when they aren't followed. Here, you posted your guidelines, and when they weren't followed, you basically said, "Oh well. No big deal." I didn't have time to enter this one, so it doesn't effect me, but I think you get where I'm going with this ... I'm just saying. Then you have someone like Patricia (no offense, Patricia) saying, "I broke the rules, and it got me published." So next week, when all the other agents are inundated with queries that break all the rules, they'll know who to yell at. YOU. And PATRICIA. :- )

I thought it was a great contest! And I like it e...

2008-05-22T18:24:27.041-07:00

I thought it was a great contest!

And I like it even more that you didn't stay so strict to the rules but rather judged by quality. So don’t go changing anything before rule breakers like me get another opportunity . . .

I really don't care about the lengths. If I had ne...

2008-05-22T18:17:26.696-07:00

I really don't care about the lengths. If I had needed another few words, I would have used them.

Nathan, I enjoyed entering this and I want to say thanks for the opportunity.

In previous contests, I cut my entries down to mak...

2008-05-22T18:06:44.103-07:00

In previous contests, I cut my entries down to make them fit the rules, which made what was being said less clear. In the future, I won't. I'll know it's ok to break the rules. Thanks for that. I see someone entered twice, too. I didn't read them, but I noticed them.

Perhaps in another contest the entrants could give...

2008-05-22T17:29:33.454-07:00

Perhaps in another contest the entrants could give the word count in their first line
Totally unreasonable basis for complaint in Nathan's blog, try being grateful for what uou get at no cost instead of cavilling about inconsequential issues

This is an amazing contest... Don't let the meanie...

2008-05-22T16:59:46.622-07:00

This is an amazing contest... Don't let the meanies get the better of you :)

The writing is either strong or it's not word counts shy or over the limit, and that is not to say the stuff that didn't make the cut was weak... like you're wont to say--it's a subjective business people.

And it's fun. Don't forget to have fun in doing what you love--says Tiff who's never won a blog blurb contest with JF/you/Samhain, and I'm sure there are others.

So, when's the next contest? lol

"impugns my professionalism" ... are you serious? ...

2008-05-22T16:44:35.143-07:00

"impugns my professionalism" ... are you serious?

I'm still tickled that you ran a (free entry) contest!

I guess I'm among those who didn't have enough time to run the "word count" function on each of the 600 of my fellow entries.

As others have said. It's the quality of writing a...

2008-05-22T16:44:34.668-07:00

As others have said. It's the quality of writing and not following rules. If I had followed rules I would never have sent an equery to my agent who does not accept equeries. As she said later at first she was annoyed but then intrigued and ended up requesting the full...and then offering representation and then selling my novel...
And Nathan's the king of his blog...he can do anything he wants.

Rules have value, but strict adherence breeds conf...

2008-05-22T16:44:10.907-07:00

Rules have value, but strict adherence breeds conformists. I need to talk out both sides of my mouth to make my double-sided singular statement.

I’m offended when I’m in the nine-items-or-less lane at the grocery and the guy in front of me has a full basket, and I confess I also find myself silently counting the only-a-little-bit-over-twelve-item-kind-of-offender, but I’m internally more forgiving—it’s within the “spirit-sphere” of the rules that I personally chose to follow.

But In both cases the result for me is the same, I’m not threatened with imminent or immutable harm so I keep my mouth shut and do what I can to feel I’m a sensible person—to manage my own reflection.

My feelings about contest complaints didn’t amount to much until the accusations of professional misconduct and the rage of battlements erected thereafter put a compelling shine on the bugle of controversy. To those called to trifle: Life is too short, life is unfair, manage thyself and the rest follows. To those called to defend, read the preceding sentence. I’m not only talking out both sides of my mouth, I’m going into the middle without finding either end.

Suggest entrants should post word count with their...

2008-05-22T16:20:30.976-07:00

Suggest entrants should post word count with their submission.
All Nathan's efforts are worthy of praise and not silly cavilling (horseman's term used in lieu of the dog fancier's expression).

ybpcuhejited words, the entrant should be requeste...

2008-05-22T16:17:17.964-07:00

ybpcuhejited words, the entrant should be requested to give the count with his title on the first line.
It's a remarkable effort on Nathan's part, which deserves praise and gratitude rather than cavilling.

I like the soccer analogy. It's kind of a bummer ...

2008-05-22T16:10:09.984-07:00

I like the soccer analogy. It's kind of a bummer that you feel bad in any way after doing something so selfless. Maybe you need a standard contest disclaimer, such as:

1. This contest is for fun and education only. Your first born child is not at stake, so chill.

2. Follow the rules, because it's a considerate thing to do.

3. Some people break the rules. If you don't like it, don't vote for them.

4. Sure, you can enter a snippet from a Pulitzer Prize winning novel, just so you can say, "aha!" when it's not picked as a finalist. But, honestly, that says more about you than Nathan, and it's not good.

Did I miss anything?

Much appreciation!

Actully, the biggest kick I got out of the contest...

2008-05-22T15:25:37.890-07:00

Actully, the biggest kick I got out of the contest was paring down this old snipper I had laying around in my idea file and making it fit into only 250 words. It really does force you to make effeicient word choices and sentencce structures. And I cut it wAY down from like 500 words to 275...and then it was real hard to go from 275 to 250, but after I did it I was glad, because it was better. I still said almost everything I wanted to say with so many less words.

anon-I assume it wasn't deliberate, just like I di...

2008-05-22T15:23:30.811-07:00

anon-

I assume it wasn't deliberate, just like I didn't deliberately count the words and say "ah, what the hell."

And for the record, if I asked for a five page synopsis and someone sent six pages, I'm not rejecting them. If I ask for a 30 page excerpt and someone sends me 31 or 34, I'm not rejecting them for that.

It's like the end of the game in soccer. It's somewhere around 90 minutes but ultimately the ref decides when it ends.