Comments on Nathan Bransford - Literary Agent: What Makes Literary Fiction Literary?

Nathan - Your idea about the plot lying below the ...

2010-08-29T08:02:24.897-07:00

Nathan - Your idea about the plot lying below the surface in literary fiction has really helped me out in a research paper I am doing for school, but I was advised to reference other writers or organizations which have the same idea, along with you, so that my argument has some weight. Please could you direct me to sources which also put across the idea of plot being the focus in commercial fiction and character development being the focus in 'real literature'? :)

Thanks again, Nathan, for illumination. I do thin...

2010-08-07T13:51:06.187-07:00

Thanks again, Nathan, for illumination. I do think, though, that literary fiction also means good--as in REALLY GOOD writing. For instance: Michael Chabon's "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay"--lots of action plus a happy ending.

I can tell you what it's not: it's not some starl...

2010-08-05T06:27:23.705-07:00

I can tell you what it's not: it's not some starlit's account of how many drugs she took while pulling in an insane amount of money; it's not some "reality" star's whining about how badly he/she was treated by the producer's of their insipid show; and it's not the "life story" of Justin Bieber. (really-that's going to be published. Really) Do I sound perplexed at what does get published?

I tend to think the distinction is a bit of an art...

2010-08-04T22:11:47.899-07:00

I tend to think the distinction is a bit of an artificial construct. We can all agree that there is plenty of unfortunately-written commercial fiction that makes the best seller lists, but there is also a great deal of high-quality genre fiction that has literary merit -- think Ken Bruen, James Lee Burke, Peter Robinson, to name just a few. Given 5 minutes I'm sure you, or I, or anyone who does a lot of reading could easily come up with three or four pages of great contemporary writers who have managed to get published and develop a following among the literary-minded. Andre Dubus, Michael Chabon, Jonathon Lethem, T.C. Boyle, etcetera etcetera, almost ad infinitum.

The idea of a literary novel qua literary novel always brings thoughts to mind of Mrs. Dalloway, or Ulysses, or not-so-popular-but-well-regarded-among-writer types like Lydia Davis -- where the author is pushing the edges of what is (or was) deemed to be the traditional format, and the reader is required to have (and use) some brainpower in order to keep up. Literary, in this context, means "esoteric," and is almost by default defined as having little appeal to the common reader -- so Nicholson Baker's extended experiment about breaking a shoelace would qualify as literary, while Jasper Fforde's hilarious The Eyre Affair -- chock full of literary references -- somehow comes under the catch-all category of contemporary fiction.

I agree with you that the novel in which nothing much happens, and in which the story is in the interior life of the characters, seems to be a much harder sell these days, but there are still so many great writers out there (more every day, it feels like) that I still feel like a kid in a candy store when I walk into my local bookstore (Rakestraw Books) and browse the aisles randomly picking up new novels from authors I've never heard of. For all the pap out there, the Murakamis and the China Mievilles of the world still seem to be finding a way to get published.

I read non-fiction and listen to literary fiction ...

2010-08-04T16:29:10.623-07:00

I read non-fiction and listen to literary fiction on audio. While I love the lilting turn of well written prose, if the story is not character driven my attention span fades. I make exceptions on certain fiction authors whose work is character driven and I read those books rather than listen on audio.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for this. I now real...

2010-08-04T10:53:25.963-07:00

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for this. I now realize that my book is a hybrid rather than just straight out literary fiction. I’ve been asking myself for a while if my book was truly literary fiction with all of the things that happen in the plot, but you cleared this up nicely for me.I was feeling guilty because the emotional depth of my characters was tossed in with a mysterious plot in which a lot actually does happen, but now I see that it's just commercial literary fiction. *wanders off and picks up a pen again*

Would you say it's possible for a literary work to...

2010-05-07T14:07:51.321-07:00

Would you say it's possible for a literary work to be a genre within a genre. That is, is it merely a style? Could All The Pretty Horses be a piece of literary fiction within western genre?

I’m out here cruising the Internet looking for def...

2010-03-28T14:47:00.137-07:00

I’m out here cruising the Internet looking for definitions for literary fiction and came across your blog. Saw your picture and convinced myself that a handsome, young, man couldn’t have much to say to me on the subject. But, your comments on the Academy Awards caught my eye. Then your acid sense of humor tantalized. Having just read about a zillion descriptions of the term, the genre, the square pegs in round holes theory – and our tendency to define something new --and be open to stretching the precedents of writing and how immediately others start deciding what doesn’t fit. I’d have to say, all stereotypes aside, you’ve offered a description I can live with. I think it nails my writing to a tee. Explains a great deal to me after years of just trying to get the voices in my head onto paper. No sarcasm intended. I’ll have to bookmark you. Maybe query you someday if I can get past my own biased self-perception of being an old white lady with a story that’s not chic lit, a mystery novel, science fiction, or strictly memoir. Thanks for that!

Full disclosure before I comment on literary/comme...

2010-03-25T12:03:58.004-07:00

Full disclosure before I comment on literary/commercial: I love the Oscars. Watch every minute, every year. Like it when interviewers and MC's are NOT snarky, when all involved act like a community of supportive artists just a little embarrassed by the bling and the competitive nature of awards. Love all the clips and love making a list of movies I haven't seen and want to see. Always feel pleased when a movie that takes some brain-power beats a more "commercial" (AHA! There's my bias showing...) movie.

Sometimes I think trying to decide what the label for your fiction is is just one more way to procrastinate. And I don't think the writers whose work will last spend too much time worrying about it. They have stories to tell, and they tell them their way. If a story is boring, whether it's commercial or literary, you've got a problem.

It amazes me to see Salinger, Rushdie and Joyce getting slammed. Unique they are (I like the idea of "unique" being one line fiction must cross to move from commerical to literary)and strange they might be, but boring they are not. We should be so lucky to write even their worst books.

One other quick thought: Taking pot shots at professors who are hoping their students will read a few challenging books before heading out to put bread on the table and read Tom Clancy (nothing wrong with that, it's true)- that's kind of crass. And it smacks of a certain ex-president who bragged about not reading at all. Jabs at academics is a popular sport in America - you don't see it abroad, and I'm puzzled by it.

I dip in and read your blog from time to time and ...

2010-01-31T21:07:34.103-08:00

I dip in and read your blog from time to time and it is always interesting. Today I burst out laughing when I got to your aside about The House of Sand and Fog.

Without regret I also admit that I didn't even watch the awards show although I am given to understand that Celine Dion is now akin to a space station and we can go see her in 3D.

Look forward to reading more.

This explanation is thought-provoking. There's ano...

2010-01-05T22:15:39.411-08:00

This explanation is thought-provoking. There's another sort of book I've seen, though - one that uses the action-orientation and prose style of genre fiction but attempts to make the kinds of "deeper" statements about life that might be expected in "literary" books. (This approach usually does not work for my taste!)

Mr. Bransford My name is SPC LEIFI and I am in th...

2009-11-28T13:07:02.552-08:00

Mr. Bransford

My name is SPC LEIFI and I am in the U.S. Army and am currently training in the DC area. On June 16, 2008 while I was deployed in Iraq, a good friend Maril Delly sent me a link with your blog for no reason that I could think of, however, I saved your information.

I am published artist with Editions Limited in Santa Rosa, CA, and create vintage jazz posters for them that they sell worldwide to all the major retailers. I also have my own art publishing company that produces WW2 type posters for the families of fallen service members from the the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns.
http://freedomsonme.com/
I am currently writing several books and I have some questions about your services.
One book in particular is a novel regarding a soldier suffering from PTSD. I have taken all my military experiences and the experiences of families that I have worked with to create this book.

I don't have an online work for the art I do for my publisher, however you can do a google search on my name and some websites will come up.

I hope to hear from you soon.

Just want to say thank you to all contributors! Th...

2009-10-22T09:17:37.699-07:00

Just want to say thank you to all contributors! This blog has helped me learn.

I've just joined a "literary" book club and - being a selective and eclectic reader of whatever's on offer - had the same question: when is a good novel a "literary" novel? Google pointed me here.

I was relieved to read that there is no distinct and generally agreed boundary between "literature" and "genre" although I recognize the basic characteristics of both. Personally, I try to avoid black and white categorisation.

Now I'm going to google "Why do some novels stand the test of time" ;)

Mike
(Netherlands)

Thanks for your blog. Very funny and useful. (Mus...

2009-09-11T11:48:10.630-07:00

Thanks for your blog. Very funny and useful. (Must make your agency very popular with writers.)

Toby. (named after the English beer)

Nathan, I think your explanation is an accurate o...

2009-07-01T13:20:06.907-07:00

Nathan,

I think your explanation is an accurate one. I have been trying to explain this very comment to several people recently, and they are having a hard time grasping it. You explain it much better than I have been.

To Anonymous who said... "Nathan: I recently submi...

2009-06-13T07:15:21.039-07:00

To Anonymous who said...
"Nathan: I recently submitted my work to a writer's competition back east & I listed the genre as "commercial literary fiction" (the hybrid). I came to this decision because of the 'eureka' that came from your description, i.e. more straightforward prose, accessible, but with a deeper emotional complexity.

One of the judges (a well-known agent) commented, "If you can't figure out what your novel is, then I won't take the time to read it. And it's not my job to tell you what the genre is." He dismissed my submission w/o a page read. Nice. All that work for naught."
An agent at a writer's conference I attended said the opening line of your pitch letter is the most important sentence. If you can make a connection in the agent's mind with something familiar to him, it gives him, or her, a better reason to read your manuscript."
So, Anonymous,next time maybe you could describe your work as "in the same genre as Elmore Leonard, Cormac McCarthy, since Nathan has pointed out that these two writers also cross the commerial/literary line. Good luck!

It's all opinion. It's commercial and popular if m...

2009-06-12T06:12:40.101-07:00

It's all opinion. It's commercial and popular if most people with the price of a book in their pocket buy it.
It's literary fiction if only a few people with the price of a book in their pocket buy it.

Sorry about that, anon. It just goes to show how s...

2009-05-01T09:53:00.000-07:00

Sorry about that, anon. It just goes to show how squishy genre labels are. I can't imagine rejecting someone just because I disagreed with how they categorized their book, but I guess some agents do.

Nathan: I recently submitted my work to a writer's...

2009-04-30T22:58:00.000-07:00

Nathan: I recently submitted my work to a writer's competition back east & I listed the genre as "commercial literary fiction" (the hybrid). I came to this decision because of the 'eureka' that came from your description, i.e. more straightforward prose, accessible, but with a deeper emotional complexity.

One of the judges (a well-known agent) commented, "If you can't figure out what your novel is, then I won't take the time to read it. And it's not my job to tell you what the genre is." He dismissed my submission w/o a page read. Nice. All that work for naught.

Now I'm hesitant in using the hybrid genre in a query letter. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

In other words, it takes the ideas of literature a...

2009-04-25T07:35:00.000-07:00

In other words, it takes the ideas of literature and develops them. You could not write a serious book about politics without mentioning Marxism, whether your conception of Marxism is positive or negative. You could not write about geo-politics or foreign affairs without treating in some way, the existence of nuclear weapons. The literary novel is about literature and works with the ideas that have developed in literature up to the present day.

I am not smart enough to understand what all those ideas are. I get, to some degree, Romanticism, Realism and Post-modernism, but in a great literary novel, there is so much more of the past and contemporary thinking about how stories, plots, characters etc are develpoed that I don't understand. The point is, in a great literary novel, this stuff is there. If, in the future, I have the time and inclination to understand the ideas contained in a great literary novel, they are there to be plumbed.

Several people have touched upon what I think of a...

2009-04-25T07:20:00.000-07:00

Several people have touched upon what I think of as "literary" fiction. I think it is a novel that pushes the envelope or pushes against the conventional definitions. It also takes ideas from the past and develops this "state of the art" idea.

One way to think of it is to use architecture as an example. An architect designing 6 or 7 room cape cods that are going up as part of a real estate development versus an architect that is designing homes that are unique. These unique homes take into consideration new ideas in living, new ideas in design and new ideas in enginerering and materials.

Dear Nathan,But what about the language? What abou...

2009-01-26T16:59:00.000-08:00

Dear Nathan,

But what about the language? What about the quality of the language in commercial plot-driven fiction versus literary fiction? Wouldn't you say there are more/different tools used in literary fiction? For example, the author may actually know what a simile is for, etc. You might not come across that in a commercial piece.

Also, what defines commercial fiction for me is the back-cover blurb. It starts out "character X is a high school sophomore who is normal in every way except one..." then goes on to the first "doorway" - "but when character X meets a demon slayer from Y, things go horribly wrong, etc." Then, the last paragraph goes something like: "together they must race against time to stop the xx clock from ticking so that the world's ice cream supply is safe..." and so on.

Isn't that A-B-C plot the whole basis of commercial fiction these days?

And if you don't happen to write that way, does that throw you into literary fiction? If it's character-driven in other words?

BTW Yes, The Ground Beneath Her Feet was not Salman Rushdie's best effort. Try Midnight's Children.

P.S. For some reason I cannot stand Ian Rankin's writing all that much. What is it? Too many hanging modifiers?

Sigh...

Literary Fiction can also be thought of as somethi...

2008-12-11T21:31:00.000-08:00

Literary Fiction can also be thought of as something that tends to push against the boarders of any one definition. A type of writing that is characterized by two important traits: 1) that it is difficult to talk about what it's doing until it's finished, and 2) that when it's finished the conversation surrounding it can change and evolve over time and subsequent reads.

The power of language can be thought of as the guiding force of these works. In a famous quote Don DeLillo says that he writes word by word into the void. That frightening process, burrowing forward without knowing where your language might lead or if your efforts will result in something that works, charges the work with a special tension, I think, that is hard to find in a piece of fiction that rests safely within the bounds of its genre.

wow. good point, Mr. Bransford. yes, literaty fict...

2008-10-02T21:26:00.000-07:00

wow. good point, Mr. Bransford. yes, literaty fiction needs DO need a plot to keep the story going.

one example I can think of right now is "The Kite Runner." We're in the mind of the lead protagonist, we explore his feelings and memories of the past, but the story progresses as he goes back to Afghanistan and rescue his nephew. It's totally character-driven, but has a real nice plot to keep the story going.

"Catcher in the Rye" on the other hand, really didn't have an exact plot, to be honest. It was happening over a series of days as Caulfield headed home after being expelled from school and staying at a sleazy motel in NYC....I kept waiting for something big to happen, but it never came. The novel was really more about his emotions and never had anything to drive the story forward.

I dunno.

We were just discussion this on an authors' loop t...

2008-05-29T15:20:00.000-07:00

We were just discussion this on an authors' loop to which I belong.
I said:
The only difference between Literary and genre writing is about 100-500 years.

BTW, great post! I'm going to bookmark you.
Barbara