Comments on Nathan Bransford - Literary Agent: 1st Person Narratives: Conversational, yes. Chatt...

Dear Nathan:I know this question is coming late, b...

2008-04-30T07:46:18.495-07:00

Dear Nathan:

I know this question is coming late, but I've written a middle grade school story in first person narrative. The protagonist is telling a story about something that happened in his past. How do I write it without writing in passive voice?

Sincerely,

Lena

Daphne Du Maurier is good to learn from for writin...

2007-11-29T10:59:00.212-08:00

Daphne Du Maurier is good to learn from for writing first person. And most of her books were suspense. It blows my mind how she gives away the ending at the beginning of My Cousin Rachel, but still has me at the edge of my seat. My favorite is Scapegoat, but Jamaca Inn has an evil albino, if you're into that sort of thing.

-lk

Hi Nathan:Another grateful for the timely post. C...

2007-11-14T06:14:28.940-08:00

Hi Nathan:
Another grateful for the timely post. Currently working on a 1st person, but toying with epistolary. Have you ever addressed the epistolary novel in your blog. I'd be really interested in reading your thoughts/comments on the subject.

1) Referrals2) Me reading something in a magazine ...

2007-11-13T18:32:17.912-08:00

1) Referrals
2) Me reading something in a magazine or on the Internet and contacting the author to see if they have representation
would you mind referring me from AW to yourself?
Or maybe contacting me on the internet and asking if I have representation?

;-)

1) Referrals2) Me reading something in a magazine ...

2007-11-13T18:31:45.038-08:00

Nathan --My book is first person, and you nailed i...

2007-11-13T14:23:32.811-08:00

Nathan --

My book is first person, and you nailed it. The first person conversation is not an exercise in realism; it's an artifice and a craft as much as any other technique.

First person is a very easy voice to write in. But it's extremely difficult to do it well.

Linnea-1) Referrals2) Me reading something in a ma...

2007-11-13T13:08:46.875-08:00

Linnea-

1) Referrals
2) Me reading something in a magazine or on the Internet and contacting the author to see if they have representation

Nathan said 'It's extremely rare for the query let...

2007-11-13T13:07:23.110-08:00

Nathan said
'It's extremely rare for the query letter route to work....I've taken on several more clients through queries since then and hope to have several more.'
So, how DO you select clients if not through the query process?

As a reader, I just get tired of 1st person in a w...

2007-11-13T12:43:01.105-08:00

As a reader, I just get tired of 1st person in a way that I never tire of 3rd person. Makes me sympathize with psychics...always hearing peoples' thoughts in your head.

Thanks for the lesson in first person, Nathan. I'v...

2007-11-13T10:15:21.796-08:00

Thanks for the lesson in first person, Nathan. I've definitely found my voice there, but long to do it right.

Someone commented that “first person POV” limits the story. To me, it opens it up into a deeper characterization of the narrator. I don't find it limiting at all. I find it harder to believe that a 3rd person POV could know so much about each character. I am more of a personal person, who connects with the inner flaws of others. I believe the limitation is based on the reader's preference, whether you like character-driven books or plot-driven.

My all time favorite is "The Poisonwood Bible" by Barbara Kingsolver. A masterpiece, in my humble opinion, of first person, six times over (5 characters and Africa). This story was not limited at all.

Writing in first person has some great advantages,...

2007-11-13T09:28:36.645-08:00

Writing in first person has some great advantages, but plenty of equally challenging shortcomings. The writer can provide a direct window into the MC's head, potentially making character dev much easier. By the same token, the MC has to infer other characters' thoughts/feelings from their actions, and the writer may have to work harder to develop those NPC's into something more solid than window dressing.

I've written in first, but prefer tight, non-omni third for the most part. Some books I've read have a confusing assortment of thirds at times, ranging from omnicient-third (which tends to resemble head-hopping IMHO) to exclusive third, wherein only one character has the focus. Flannery O'Connor's The Violent Bear it Away has some odd shifts, for example.

As for "said", "asked", I used to think that variety was a good thing, but after countless hours reading and critting other writers' works, I've grown to dislike "sadisms", i.e. any verbs which substitute for "said" or "asked". After a certain number, they become intrusive and oftentimes ridiculous.

Also, a lot of writers tend to overdo the dialogue tags and beats, disrupting the natural flow. When I revise, I have to prune quite a bit since I tend to overdo those myself on the first run.

Anon-That was a long time ago. I've taken on sever...

2007-11-13T07:39:07.448-08:00

Anon-

That was a long time ago. I've taken on several more clients through queries since then and hope to have several more.

Phew!

These are good points, Nathan. Narrative and dialo...

2007-11-13T07:26:36.967-08:00

These are good points, Nathan. Narrative and dialogue are two completely different beasts.

Another reason to avoid chattiness is that a writer can get bogged down in the character's voice and ignore all the other important aspects of the story.

My own book, Servicing the Pole, has a first person narrator. It wasn't easy for me to show a strong protagonist and still convey inevitable human error. To serve the story, my narrator had to make mistakes. Sometimes she had to look ridiculous to other characters while not necessarily being aware of how she appeared to anyone but herself. Showing all this from inside someone's head can be challenging.

The thing to remember is that people are, above all else, fallible. Their perceptions are often incorrect. So when using a first person narrative, the story must also contain benchmarks for the other character's perceptions as well as for the reader's perception. These three are often not the same.

www.laurishaw.com

I can't help but feel you're casting a, "I'm looki...

2007-11-13T07:12:40.687-08:00

I can't help but feel you're casting a, "I'm looking at you, kid," my way. Because, yes, guilty as charged. I'm cleaning it up, honest I am, but in the meantime, thanks for the confirmation that a little goes a loooong way. These damn punks teenagers today need to get their tiring idioms off of my lawn as well as off of my pages.

"Chatty" isn't my problem. Another thing along the...

2007-11-13T05:55:01.274-08:00

"Chatty" isn't my problem. Another thing along the same lines is a tendency to make self-descriptive asides and philosophical observations direct to the reader.
They need care or they can destroy both the pace and the narrative tone.

This is timely, because I'm currently writing in f...

2007-11-13T04:01:38.084-08:00

This is timely, because I'm currently writing in first person for the first time and I'm not at all sure I like it.
I always have an impulse to write the first few lines of any new story in first person, but I usually resist it because I know I'm going to need to show more than one POV. This time I decided that the story didn't need more than one POV, and so I went with the impulse.
I'm finding it insanely difficult, although 'chatty' isn't my problem. Still, I'm going to press through to the end before I start any revision or rewriting. Maybe I'll start to like it and the practise is probably good for me!

I'm so glad you posted about this!I'm writing my N...

2007-11-13T03:44:16.168-08:00

I'm so glad you posted about this!

I'm writing my Nanowrimo fantasy novel in first person after reading Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy. I must say, though, that I'm struggling a little.

Your link to the 'He said, he shouted' post was soooo good to read too. I thought using the word 'said' too much was wrong.. I know better now, although I would probably prefer to use an action rather than just use 'she said' ('Show, dont tell!')

So anyway, back to first person POV. I understand that by careful planning and writing I can make things appear to the reader without the character knowing (like - something bad is going to happen and if the character doens't move he's going to get shot, etc), and vice versa I can make the character know about something but the reader has to just follow along and wait to find out, but what I haven't managed to do well is be able to write about the history of a certain place, or write about events that take place when the main character is not there. Should I write 'I was told later that such and such happened etc,' and then describe the event, or what?

Basically, I'm struggling with the limitations of first person, because I want to show other things happening in the story, where the main character isn't present, but I want to do it without making the main character an evesdropping snoop.

Thanks Jenny for the link to the POV book - just what I need!!!

What a timely post for me as well. Like, thanks fo...

2007-11-12T23:32:50.026-08:00

What a timely post for me as well. Like, thanks for the insight. Dude.

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

Anon-That was a long time ago. I've taken on seve...

2007-11-12T22:33:23.973-08:00

Anon-

That was a long time ago. I've taken on several more clients through queries since then and hope to have several more.

Off topic but I read a previous post you linked an...

2007-11-12T22:25:24.646-08:00

Off topic but I read a previous post you linked and saw this:

It's extremely rare for the query letter route to work -- I've seen thousands and thousands of query letters, and of those I've only taken on two as clients.

Well, that's encouraging.

Dr. Dume,If you know what you are doing, you can w...

2007-11-12T19:22:12.370-08:00

Dr. Dume,

If you know what you are doing, you can write in the first person and still let the reader know that something very nasty is about to happen to your narrator even if he doesn't.

It's done by having the narrator observe things in enough detail that the reader is able to draw one conclusion about what is going on even though the narrator may be drawing a different one. The contrast between what the reader is shown and what the narrator believes can create a suspenseful dynamic.

But it's challenging because if your narrator is too out of touch with the reality around him, your reader may say, "What an idiot!" and put the book down.

It's true, Dume, that foreshadowing is a lot tough...

2007-11-12T19:06:12.857-08:00

It's true, Dume, that foreshadowing is a lot tougher to do in first person. But it can be done. It's just that the reader is only privy to the same info as the viewpoint character, and that can be very suspenseful. Both the reader and the viewpoint character get to experience the same clues, interactions, warnings, etc., but each will perceive them a little differently. It's thrilling to ride shotgun with the character through the story. First person is not the easiest viewpoint to master, but the challenge is half the fun. 8^)

I don't write in first person (okay, I'm doing it ...

2007-11-12T18:56:54.254-08:00

I don't write in first person (okay, I'm doing it now but that doesn't count). It limits the story to a single POV, which means I can't let the reader know something awful's about to happen to the character who thinks he's going to have a good day.

I like the idea of letting the reader know I'm about to do something terrible to the hero, but he doesn't know it yet, and the reader can't warn him.

Perhaps I'm just cruel that way.

Thanks for posting this. I switched my fantasy fr...

2007-11-12T18:33:21.865-08:00

Thanks for posting this.

I switched my fantasy from first to third and, although I dreaded it at the time, I'm much happier with it now.

It takes a lot of talent to do first person right and Diana Gabaldon's works are some of the few I really enjoy. Kudos to you who can do it well. I wussed out, because it's like just too hard, you know?

Which brings me to the next thing I'm pondering. Would it be best to use a spiffy nickname when I respond to posts or even anon007?

"There's no real-life equivalent. It's something e...

2007-11-12T18:00:24.570-08:00

"There's no real-life equivalent. It's something else entirely."

I love that. It's true. I have been writing in first person present tense for the last couple of years and I enjoy it- I feel like I can get into character and really tell the story. BUT I'm aware that it's a construct.