So here's a quick series of polls that will hopefully demystify the demographics. Please click through from e-mail or your blog reader to see the polls.
(the second option in this poll should have read: "Started, haven't finished"):
Let's see who's really out there.
![]("http://www.writersdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/writers-digest-2013-101-best-sites.jpg)
271 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 271 Newer› Newest»After 2 1/2 years I think I'm finally in the gray transition area between "done" and "sending it to agents who will probably tell me I'm not done."
That was fun. I wish everything in this business was that easy.
I clicked "unagented" but technically, I've been published on what can't be considered a professional market (1000 ex if I remember correctly).
I got paid for that, too. :P
I'm no legal expert, but that last item might be a leading question.
That was fun and informative - thanks!
(And the part about the rhetorical question made me giggle.)
:)
G.
Rhetorical Question: Is it just me, or did I detect a bias on that last question?
Nathan - I LOVE these polls! It's so interesting to see where people are at. Next time maybe you could go door to door?;-)
Wow. There are a lot of females reading this blog so far. Huh.
It must be Nathan's hair...
What's wrong with rhetorical questions?
Thanks for the great polls -- wow, gents, we need to pick up the pace.
Hey! Stories get published too. I'm (thus far) unpublished in novels but nicely published as far as stories. :-)
[posting anon, since it won't take my LJ handle for some reason...]
I got a publishing contract by going directly to the publisher, but I'm hoping to get an agent with my WIP which I'm currently revising. :)
Nathan is so popular with the ladies!
Also, where's the 100% complete and started on next WIP option?
I keep getting "nudges" from people to get on with the revising and agenting process. I guess this is another nudge. (sigh) It's so scary, though!
I am floored by the gender question responses.
Intellectually, I understood the blog-sphere was owned by women. It is quite another to see it validated.
Nathan, do your queries have the same male-female ratio?
So agented with an MS before publishers but also having several ebook published and upcoming falls where in this survey?
anthony-
No, it's much more of an even male/female mix. Although I will say, not to stereotype by gender or anything, but a lot more of the really "out there" queries tend to come from men, who I'm guessing aren't reading agent blogs in the same numbers as women.
Maybe it's the same gene where you don't want to stop and ask for directions.
That was informative and fun. Thanks Nathan.
anon (and others)-
There's no way to poll for every eventuality. Just pick the one that you think fits you best.
so hard to answer! 3 complete novels, but 3 (or 4) more in various stages of progress. Incomplete ones are 25%, 50%, and 75% complete (and barely started). Completed ones are in assorted stages of revision (crit group, beta readers).
word verification: untme - untime or untie me?
Two more questions you could have asked(so we know who writes books):
1.What's your work background, before published?
A.Business/no writing
B.Business with writing
C.Teaching
D.Publishing/journalism
E.None of above &/or no paid work
AND
2.What's your educational background?
A.Less than undergrad
B.Undergraduate degree
C.Masters Degree
D.Doctorate
E.More than 1 advanced degree
It would have been nice if your option for epublished hadn't been linked with self-published, because there are a lot of legitimate epublishers out there who are nothing to do with self-publishing.
I'm on what I predict to be my penultimate editing pass. Joy!
LOL to Ryan Potter.
I clicked Unagented because that's my career goal (get agent, get published, get LOTS of readers) but I've been e-publishing an online chick lit series just for fun.
And yeah, haha, I skipped the rhetorical question poll. Oh, Nathan...
pepper-
I knew people were going to say that. I know they're different, but I feel they can be lumped together as "other publishing." If I drilled down into every single eventuality the polls would be too long/cumbersome.
I'm a publishing professional, only beginning as an author. Editors and other agents weren't well-represented in your polls.
Instead of "Started Never Finished" it would be great if there was a "Currently Working On" because I'm in the process of writing my first novel, but I haven't given up on it yet. Checking started never finished kinda makes me feel like a loser, which I swear, I so totally am not.
valerie-
Whoops, that should have read, "Started HAVEN'T finished."
Unfortunately I can't change the poll though. Sorry about that!
On rhetorical questions: http://news.yahoo.com/comics/frazz;_ylt=AlpSXBHEpPeFJO8uVb1pg_wL_b4F
Interesting results. Wonder why so many women? I have a few theories.
Great post. Thanks for asking. Metrics can be fun. :)
It would be interesting to see how many agent blogs writers follow and if there is any correlation to query letter quality.
Additionally, how many writers have day jobs? Or degrees outside of English or Journalism?
Thanks again,
HHS
Well Nathan, I alarmingly fit into the norm of your demographics (so far). But enough with the profiling, aren't we due for another contest? ;) *she says with utter hope*
I've been "agented" for exactly one submission. Last year an agent responded to a 100 page partial & synopsis by enthusiastically sending it to an award-winning editor at a great house: agent said we'd probably hear back in a week. I forgot about it for a few months (it never left my mind for more than a few seconds) until I was copied, accidentally, on an email exchange that revealed a series of email mishaps in the handoff of the pdf...editor requesting a resend, agent forgetting to until a MONTH later, by which time the editor was buried in another project-- chagrined agent tentative to press after weeks & months go by...the week became a year. I asked, of course, but the agent wouldn't send it to other editors. Agent is a very nice fellow and has a fine (if flaky) reputation, but he's obviously not the one for me. Unagented, I.
Opens up a whole can o' worms, yes? Why are most of your readers women? Are there more women who want to be published than men who do? Or do women just participate in surveys more? etc.
ooh, what about geography too?
Wow, you work fast! I feel much better now. LOL Thanks!
It took me 7 months to write my first MS. 13 months to find my agent and 2 months to sell my first MS to its publisher. I heart my agent, so worth the wait! It's funny how the agent part took the longest, but I'm sure that's the case for a lot of people. To everyone out there still querying, keep going! And Nathan, no matter what you say, I do think some of the ladies be having a crush on you!! Ha, ha! Thanks for the great post!
You're such a goof. That's what we love about you. :)
Thank you.
Fascinating quiz, Nathan.
A couple of elaborations:
"How many books have you written?"
I picked 5-10, but I'll only admit to the existence of three or four of them.
"For those working on a manuscript, how far are you?"
I'm in revisions on one, under 25% of the way through a complete rewrite of another, and have one or two more first drafts that I plan on going back to. Any other project-hoppers out there?
Very interesting that (so far) a quarter of respondants have only written one novel.
I'm aghast by that.
I was too overwhelmed to hang out on agent blogs until I had at least finished a few. I knew I had to keep my nose to the grindstone if my mss were ever going to get done. This is me, though, and I'm not necessarily suggesting that others are wrong, but the thought does cross my mind quite a lot in this business that people favor the "romantic" notion of writing much more than they do the hard ass work of finising the damn thing.
Haha, Robert McGuire, I'm about to be at that point, too!
And, amen, Ryan, I wish everything were just that easy.
I just can't believe how many of us are unagented AND female. What does that say about the Bransfordites?
I'm not a regular reader here for various reasons, but I'm a sucker for polls.
My answers: 10-20 books, self-/e-published, 50-75% complete on my current novel, age bracket 40-49. I've been writing seriously for 15 years and have written more than what the poll questions (screenplays, essays, and multiple unfinished novels, short stories and screenplays).
I'm assuming most people responding here read quite regularly, so I'm a bit disturbed that so far only 15% have written five or more books and 25% have only written one. But these numbers aren't unexpected (if they hold).
A body of work should contain multiple works, not one or two. I think too many writers are simply desiring instant-gratification publication, not to write over the long haul and create a body of work.
On the other hand, to be fair to my own kind, continuing on with writing is extremely tough, especially in the face of multiple rejections, which writers typically accumulate with increasing time. Some people are better off quitting at an early point or midpoint, or at least downscaling writing's importance in their lives.
Get back to your manuscripts, people--that's what really counts!
Interesting poll results. Especially the large percentage of women readers (of which I am one). How about a question asking if we have succeeded in other writing endeavors outside of novels? I have some produced works in playwriting and film and television. This is my first novel, or at least the first novel that I intend to finish.
This was fun. And interesting!
Well, it was fun, until I got stuck in a paradoxical alternate dimensional loop, while I frantically tried to answer a rhetorical question about rhetorical questions.
I'm still here actually. It's quiet here, in rhetorical question land. All the questions are already answered. So peaceful. I may never leave....
Damn you Writer Survey for reminding me I have to cross over into a new age category on my next birthday!
"...that people favor the "romantic" notion of writing much more than they do the hard ass work of finis[h]ing the damn thing."
--Too true.
Anon 11:54 - Just because I've only finished one novel doesn't mean I'm not SERIOUS about the craft of writing. I'm quite serious about it as a long-term goal - which is why I'm working so hard to revise my book. I don't consider it a "practice" novel - this is the first one that I wrote AND the first one that I want to publish.
Sometimes, I get so tired of the notion that a writer has to write three or four novels before trying to get published. What's wrong with trying to make the first one the best it can be?
Damn--72% have finished only 3 or fewer books!
A transposition mistake above: I should have written, "I'm assuming most people responding read here quite regularly..."
Nice poll. Interesting to see the results. it'll be good to have the question "How long have you been 'revising' your work?" I'm doing my second edit of my book, and I'd be curious to see how long it takes others to revise & edit.
I have a box-full of half-completed novels under my bed - but for this poll I only included the two I've drafted to novel length (over 50k), one of which I'm revising/redrafting at the moment. It's hard work but satisfying! One day soon it'll be finished and I can send it out into the wide world...
And for the record, I have a life sciences degree and a day-job, and yes, I used to work in (non-fiction) publishing - before I discovered that IT pays better :)
"Maybe it's the same gene where you don't want to stop and ask for directions."
Still laughing.
Is there a gene for "who knew they even had directions on how to do this stuff?"
Laura Montone --
Ahem, that is why I quantified my statement by saying, and I quote:
"...This is me, though, and I'm not necessarily suggesting that others are wrong..."
Read the whole post if you are going to call me out, please. If you can write only one book and get that sucker published, then more power to you. Most don't. I wasn't trying to be discouraging.
Wow, comments are so modest. :)
Nathan,
Now now, let's not go there on the sex thing and it being about men not asking for directions.
It's more about their need to build things without looking at the instructions.
I generalized my answers on my two wip's that are currently getting all of my attention. The rest of the rabble can continue to collect dust in the drawer for now. And I assumed that published meant something more meaty than short stories and flash fiction online.
I can't help but notice
there's no option for 0-1 year-olds. What about all the writers who got their start scribbling on their placenta walls? :)
Laura, would you apply the same standard to poetry?
Imagine if something like that happened in the poetry world, and writing only one best-it-could-be whole poem became the requirement for being called a poet, especially a good or a great poet.
I think that would be ridiculous. And I think it's equally ridiculous for novels, screenplays, short stories and so on.
In my opinion, a writer must have multiple experiences writing to The End in a format in order to "perfect" writing in that format and be considered a serious writer in that format. And by perfect I only mean when the writer becomes the best at that format she'll ever personally become. And becoming the best requires repetition in executing whole works, not one or parts--wholes.
Good (and especially great) writing requires a repeat phenomenon--it's the way it is. I don't consider a writer a novelist unless the person's written at least three novels. I think every person could probably write one novel. A slightly bigger percentage have two novels in them, but most people wouldn't make it past Number 2. Novel Number 3 is the critical number to strive toward.
But every writer must start somewhere. Nothing wrong with you or anyone else being at Number 1--just avoid stopping there if you want to become really good at novelwriting and earn the Novelist title, at least in my eyes lol.
How about "none of your business" for "How old are you?"
Regarding the "working on a mss option" - that's hard to answer - I wrote "revising" because I am with the latest, just finished, but by the revising stage, i'm always started on a new one too.
F.P.
The following people only wrote one book. They'll be sorry to hear they aren't really authors:
• Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird.
• Margaret Mitchell, Gone With the Wind.
• Emily Brontë, Wuthering Heights.
• J. D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye.
• Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray.
• John Kennedy Toole, A Confederacy of Dunces.
• Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar.
• Anna Sewell, Black Beauty.
• Boris Pasternak, Dr. Zhivago.
• Arundhati Roy, The God of Small Things.
Wait. I just copied that..how did Oscar Wilde get on that list? Maybe he only wrote plays.
I'm sort of grumpy today. Maybe it's the dimensional loop.
Anyway, I think I made my point, accuracy aside.
Hey, where's the option for "Published but unagented"? :)
If I may, this debate seems a bit more fraught than it needs to be. I know plenty of writers who sold the first novel they'd ever written in their life. I also know plenty of writers who wrote ten or more unpublished works before they found publication. Neither way is better or worse than the other. It just takes what it takes.
Writers need to write as many novels as they need to write to get there. That may be one it may be fifty. Some make it on the first try and never write as well again. Some keep getting better and better and find publication on the tenth or twentieth.
Every single writer has a different path. There's no better or worse path, they're just different.
I wonder if the male-female ratio is another sign towards how fiction is more enjoyed by women than men...
Anon 11:54/12:17 - I did, in fact, read the whole post. I always do before commenting. And although I indeed noticed your caveat that "This is me, though, and I'm not necessarily suggesting that others are wrong," it was quickly followed by the "thought" that a lot of "people favor the 'romantic' notion of writing much more than they do the hard ass work of finising the damn thing."
It was that that offended me... but perhaps I'm just sensitive to this same old refrain. My rebuttal was certainly not meant to "attack" you - I'm just sick of hearing people suggest that concentrating on one book makes a writer somehow less "serious" about his/her craft. I don't just want to be a writer - I want to tell THIS story. That's why I wrote it.
But I appreciate the fact you weren't trying to be discouraging - perhaps it was your tone that belied your intentions. That certainly can happen in the faceless blogosphere.
--Laura Martone
Here come the ad hominem attacks...nice.
In my opinion, "Anonymous" didn't criticize or judge anyone. Anonymous expressed a general opinion, which this specific poll sparked and could support.
I wish people would use nickname tags rather than leave up Anonymous, or else readers can't tell who's who among the Anonymous posters.
Mira, thanks for the strawperson.
I never used the "author"* word in my post. I used NOVELIST. A writer of a single novel could write a good novel. A writer's first novel could be good, but while I consider that writer a writer (as long as she writes regularly), I do NOT consider that writer a novelist. A creator of only one whole poem who also dabbles in writing poem parts regularly would be a writer, but would NOT be a poet to me.
If all those writers you listed only ever wrote one novel, I don't consider them novelists, sorry. And I think had they written even more, they probably would have written even better ones.
*I can't stand the author word. I think it implies that at some point a writer has ARRIVED and is now on some higher plane. I am and only ever will be a WRITER. Being a writer is about WRITING, not "authoring." Being a writer is about the work, not the potential prize at the end of the work.
Nathan, that was beautifully written.
I'm sorry I lost my head. F.P., let's agree to disagree.
Thank you, Nathan, for voicing your opinion re: a writer's path and how every one of them is different. I couldn't agree with you more - generalizations irk me so.
And that's all I'm going to say on that. (whistling, petting the kitty, moving on...)
I've deleted all those comments anyway. You guys are arguing to the wind.
I didn't take the poll since I have three WIP's going on in different stages - and if I counted my PB's I would have many more completed books than my one MG, but I did love reading the poll results. At least it was validating to see I'm not older than the average responder:)
I know exactly what you mean by "I want to tell THIS story. That's why I wrote it." I didn't set out to become a Writer. My brain just would not let go of this story(or maybe it was the other way around and the story wouldn't let go of my brain.)
BTW, I'm amazed at how much you've got posted Ruby Hollow, especially the genealogies, before publication. That's really cool!
I love how most of your readers are female! This is interesting.
This survey may give you a slight idea, but it really doesn't tell you who's reading the blog, it tells you who took the survey.
I usually don't take surveys but decided to do this one because I'm following you on Twitter.
this is hilarious .. I know you didn't mean to be so. basically, I'm a gay guy in his 30's with one unpublished / one sold novel in competition with people who are VERY against queries that begin rhetorically?
(although I do have representation, the sold/but unpublished field assumes one has an agent; does everyone?)
I'd be curious to see what genre the 78% of novelist aspirants are working on AND (or, vs.) what they're writing AND, in a fantasy book store world, if you book could be stocked in three sections, what would they be (if it's not easily cateorizeable)?
anon-
That was so last week.
Why is epublished and self published together? I make my living from epublishing. Also have an agent who hasn't placed the ms yet. Also published in non fiction under another name. I put "published," since I am, and I've never paid a penny for the privelege.
no worries, interesting results!
lynne-
Answered that one farther up.
I lo ve surveys. This was a fun one. :)
Hi, Thermocline. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one obsessed with telling a particular story - mine wouldn't let go of my brain either.
As for the Ruby Hollow website, I appreciate the favorable responses I've received... but I'm beginning to think that I have TOO MUCH on the site. It was intended for agents and editors, pre-publication - which is why it's so thorough. Once it's being published, I'd probably make it more appropriate for a reading audience. But who knows? It's gotten people interested in reading the story - and I guess that's what matters, right?
This was a great idea, Nathan. Thank you!
i'm anon 1:03 ... "so last week?" LOL, okay, yes, I know, I read your blog everyday so it was more, so interblogtextual ... not to mention a funny phrase to use in an industry where (I'm quoting, who/what I don't recall) six weeks is considered lunch. these metrics are interesting though.
I'm curious what you meant, in describing queries from men as being "more out there" ... crazy? progressive? it's a tantalizing statement / observation. esp. w/the advent of the Good Men project
Maybe if I learned to spell "Privilege" that might read better! (Or maybe not). The main difference between epublishing and self publishing is that epublishing companies pay you, but you pay self-publishers, if you see what I mean.
I'm just digging a deeper hole, aren't I? Better stop now and go and see how Arsenal did.
Incidentally, I should've said this earlier... but, thanks, Nathan, for hosting the illuminating survey. I'm only sorry it sparked such an ugly debate. Ah, well. Writers can be temperamental - or so I've heard. Darn it, there I go generalizing again. ;-)
Nathan - this is so true:
"Every single writer has a different path. There's no better or worse path, they're just different."
And we must remind ourselves of this again and again, no matter where we are at in the process, before AND after publication.
I voted.
But on WiPs, well, I'm crazy and have several. All of which are at different stages and in different genres or media.
Some are 100% done, one on submission the other in revisions.
One of those is a poetry book.
The other is a genre romance.
I have four other poetry collections, each in various percentages of completedness.
My novel is the one I voted with and it's 27% done.
That's my explanation of my percentages.
Definitely.
Getting people interested that early out is great. Plus it shows how passionate you are about your story. I'm sure that shows up on your pages.
Gotta say...this poll has depressed me, not that that's difficult to do. But I don't wanna look at the results anymore.
It may be too self-selecting/biased anyway, as maybe most writers hanging at this blog (and agent blogs in general) are newer writers and hang here because they're newer. The smaller percentage of writers having completed multiple works--maybe that wouldn't be the case for polls done elsewhere, where a higher percentage of more experienced writers may hang out.
I don't know. I do, however, get the feeling the poll is pretty accurate compared to the larger population of writers (same for your last poll about genres); my personal observations have yielded around the same percentages. Hence, my feeling depressed--though not just for that reason.
Interesting - particularly the age-grouping. I'm younger than I thought in terms of productivity,but older in terms of this blog and what I fondly imagined was a peer group.
I just come here to stare at your hair.
10-20 novels, Published (as of yesterday! Woo!), Revising, Female, 1-19, Amen!
I'm striking a good balance between bizarre and shockingly typical, looks like. (Yeah females revising!)
(word verification: pediste. "you asked?")
That's a lot of girls.
Not that I'm complaining. :)
As for the surveys, I did wonder about the formerly agented... oh the gnashing of teeth in the outer dark. And I figured by published you meant published "book", so I answered accordingly.
And I'm all for the idea of writers taking different paths. Mine has been odder than I once expected it would be. Ah, the innocence of youth.
And I can't really get down with any arbitrary calculation to determine who is a novelist and who isn't. One book? Two? Five? Seven? Seems rather random, and rather pointless in the end, as it's arguing about the label rather than the reality. And the label is rather meaningless. Unless you're trying to pick up women (or men, particularly since ZOUNDS and OH MY GOD there's a lot of women here. Yes, my suspicions are being confirmed. Women are secretly killing off men, starting with the intelligent and creative ones. It explains so much. Like politics.)
"How old are you?"
...not a very friendly question for someone at the extreme outer limits of "30-39"!
Great poll!
I've actually written several novels, but I chose "1" because it's the only one I feel is viable (and that I am currently in the process of revising---rewriting, more like. 90% done! It's like pulling teeth!) as all the others were written when I was a teenager. They are either terribly derivative of whatever I was obsessed with at the time or else thinly-veiled autobiography I intended to be the Next Great American Novel.
Ah, youth.
I am currently steeling myself for the query stage in the publishing process.
(Nathan, so popular with the ladies!)
Congrats, Hannah!
You crack me up.
Hey, I've been wanting to ask: If a novel is inspired from actual events (i.e., a memoir), is that relevant information at the query stage? 350 is so few words.
Thanks for the survey. It was fun.
Hannah, congrats! -- 10 - 20 already? Wow... mad props to you for that (even if some of them are trunkers, that's still impressive).
I have 2 novels fantasy published by a small press, without an agent, and a third unpublished. I have a number of short stories as well, some published, some under contract, etc., but I didn't include them on the list.
"the really "out there" queries tend to come from men, who I'm guessing aren't reading agent blogs in the same numbers as women." I read the blogs and the advice, but I don't know why I bother. The words make no sense to me but do succeed in giving me a stress headache. Anything beyond 'would you like to read my book?' is beyond me. Fortunately my current publisher was happy with that, way back when.
"novels fantasy"
Take that. Reverse it. Thank you.
Hannah,
I'm not sure which is more impressive... published at 18 or 10-20 novels by 18? You've certainly worked for your success.
I must admit, when I was 18 I'd completed, oh, three or four short stories. And half of them were in grade school. But, you know, they were great. Absolute classics. I even illustrated them myself. Top shelf, if I may say so. And not just me! My mother was also very supportive.
Ink,
LOL
Maybe that's why so many men seem to turn into deer in the headlights around me when they learn I have a master's degree! It would certainly explain a lot.
Wow, congrats, Hannah, for being published! That's so exciting!
This is fun, fun, fun - and very informative.
However, I suspect the polling about queries that begin with rhetorical questions might be bias - just a little.
I appreciate the insight this provides.
You really do need a "started, haven't finished" question, because even though I've finished one, I have plenty more that I scratched or reworked into shorter pieces, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Interesting to see the demographics here.
You aren't the worst looking guy in the world, which may have a minor affect with the guy/girl ratio.
This could be cleared up pretty quick with the: How many of you want to have my baby? question.
I'm a no, but probably in the minority here. That said, still think you're the bee's knees. cheers
As usual, I fall between the cracks. I clicked four books, but the complete answer is that I've finished two, and have three more in various stages - say 25% - 50% complete.
I'm a Gemini. I don't DO one thing at a time.
I assumed you meant "novels" when asking if published, or agented, or whatnot.
No novels published yet, since I'm still revising my first one (almost there!), but I do have short fiction published. And yes, recently.
loved that last question.
I think what Robert McGuire said sums me up almost perfectly as well:
"After 2 1/2 years I think I'm finally in the gray transition area between "done" and "sending it to agents who will probably tell me I'm not done."
Novice Writer Anonymous!
Though only a lowly male, I have a Masters Degree too. Except it's not worth the paper it's printed on. I know because I tried to sell it. At the pawn shop. No go. They said an MBA, maybe, or a Law Degree... but an MA? No chance. Wouldn't even give me a discount on the old Milli Vanilli record. Now that MA is like a big target around my neck. I fear next week this poll would show even less males, now that we've exposed ourselves. In the immortal words of Dame Agatha, and then there were...
Can you please distinguish the difference between unquestionably, definitely, yes, amen and affirmative?
Is one more emphatic than the other?
Awesome poll Nathan; can't wait to analyze the results.
Wait. That sounded way too dorky.
Ink - Love it! I have an MA too.
I have just about finished one novel (revising). My second novel, which is 75% completed, has a far more interesting "hook", so I plan to query for it (and then mention the other novel after I'm agented). I hope to begin querying by Christmas.
Oh, and I'm a 28-year-old female who writes kidlit.
Here's a category that wasn't included in your tally:
I had a reputable agent for my first novel. She loved the book and worked very hard to place it. In the end, she couldn't and we parted amicably. Could never get another agent to respond to me, let alone even look at it. (No blame there. I've been an editor; I know how impossible it is to deal with mountains of queries.)
In the end, I created a small publishing company of my own to produce/publish it. The book has since won several awards and I have a producer interested in my screenplay adaptation of it.
Given my challenges the first time around, I didn't even bother looking for an agent for my second (unrelated) book. Recently, it won a national award.
Another piece of the poll I had difficulty responding to: I'm working on two books right now -- one is in revision, the other is approx 10% into its first draft.
LOL Ink. I know what you mean about the degree not being worth the paper it's printed on. Too funny about the pawn shop.
It's nice to see a breakdown of stats on the readers & voters of this blog. I had guessed that the age demographics were similar to what is showing at 2pm PT.
I agree with other readers that you don't really give us a choice on the last question, but I'm not fond of rhetorical questions. Too often, those type questions seem like a set-up for the reader. (i.e., look at it this way)but it's a ploy used in consumer marketing quite a lot.
Interesting post, Nathan.
I am not a writer or an author.
I am a Linguistical Narrative Semiotician. For reals.
Cool survey, btw. I'm actually surprised at the (like me) agented but unpublished percentage. I thought there would be more, given the state of the industry.
The poll looks great except for, as others have mentioned, lumping "e-published" and "self-published" together. Ouch! It burnssss us! As soon as I stop banging my head on the desk over that question, I will answer the poll. :)
Wow. I am so completely average in every aspect for this group. I don't know if that's good or bad.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Finished answering the Poll, although didn’t answer the last question. There was no way to answer "No" for that one. That’s funny.
I'm in the revising stage of my current WIP. Will most likely complete final revision in September or October and will then begin querying ... and taking up a new hobby like biting my fingernails.
Thanks, Nathan -- I think I was one of the readers who inquired about this after the last poll, so I was interested to see the results. Much appreciated!
Reesha 11:24
It may be the hair, I dont know. Maybe the smile ?
I like this post. No need to pick it apart. It is good general information.
That said, I did not see a "No" answer for that last one for me to pick. heh heh
Loved responding to this poll. And seeing how others responded was a lot of fun. But the poll doesn't account for those of us, like me, who have published in non-fiction genres and are now making a transition to fiction. But I guess that's why comment boxes exist! BTW, I'm about a quarter of the way through my first novel and it's the best adventure I've ever been on.
So many women...so little time.
I was looking for Indubitably as an answer to the last question. Since it isn't there I went win Amen.
Yes! Thank you Nathan...It was me who asked the question on whether you thought more men or women followed your blog.
So, are you surprised by the polls so far?
j.j.-
I'm a little surprised by the gender breakdown, but everything else is about what I would have guessed.
Laura Martone,
Your website captured my intense interest from the moment I first saw it, and I'm so hoping your book gets published. The story idea is fascinating, as are the visuals on your website.
Hey, wait a sec. I wrote, illustrated, and bound a children's book when I was in grade school, then went and read it to a kindergarten class. LOL I was pretty froggy back then, I guess. :) I looked through my writing files and I have three WIPs.
So, I've technically written one book...but that was at age 12. And it was 177 pages mostly handwritten!
Over the second half of my life, I've started five others, two which made it past the first three chapters and one which was 75% done. All of the ideas I hope to revisit someday (including the novel written at 12). My current one I'm desperately hoping I'm able to finish.
How is it I was able to actually finish a novel at 12 and not be able do it at almost 25? :P
Looooooved the options under rhetorical question. *snort* That was just funny.
Nathan,
I'm not surprised in the least. I'll tell you why too. It's all about you Nathan. You're honest, helpful, and pretty good looking too. Women find that appealing... If you didn't go the extra mile, were full of yourself, and looking like a Basset Hound. I'd don't think you'd be as popular. You've gotta know that. You're in sales...
Congratulations, Hannah! I’ve been waiting for your novel to be published because it sounded so fascinating. When I saw your announcement here today, I immediately ordered a copy of BREAK. I wish you all the best with it! May you sell many copies!
I love you, Marilyn! You're so supportive of everyone here... even buying Hannah's book! It makes me feel warm and fuzzy whenever you comment.
Wow Nathan, you're really pulling in the chicks!
Thank you so much, Laura! You just made my day!
Obviously Nathan, you are a chick magnet. :)
Yes! one of the three percent under 18! (actually, I can't believe there are that many).
Comprehensive, thank you - makes one think about one's progression. I did smirk at the nit-picking though; writers do get a grip please, it's a poll.
If in need of a breather, try Bill Hicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRJhzcj9cpQ
around the 5:20 mark provides a polling joke.
Hey, I'd still adore Nathan if he looked like a Basset Hound - cuz hounds are adorable! With those wubbly droopy ears and cheeks and those soulful eyes .... awwwwww.
Pardon me while I try to give you belly rubs, Nathan... who's a good boy? Who's a good boy? YOU'RE a good boy!
Nathan, thanks for these polls. I always look forward to your posts.
Boy Nathan, I think you opened a can of worms on this one. You might need to hire a body guard or change your name.
Another option you might put up is, "Have any short stories published?" Someone like me might have published shorts, but no agent for our novels yet.
Then again, maybe your lack of interest disproves the common wisdom that shorts help attract agents and publishers for a novel.
Interesting stuff! I feel so normal now.
Don't know about anyone else, but I'm glad to see that handful of under-nineteen blog followers. There'd probably be a lot more so-called prodigies if more young writers got helpful guidance.
72 % unagented... If only someone reading this could do something about such a high number. What do you say, Nathan, how does never sleeping again sound?
anon 3:44
LOL... Well there are a few out there who are dog lovers!
Just now finished reading all the comments. Here’s my story, a somewhat convoluted one ...
I’ve written seven novels plus lots of short stories, edited several books and had several lines published in Book: The Sequel.
I wrote four novels, including one through Writer’s Digest Advanced Writing Workshops, before finding any sort of publication. My third and fourth novels were represented for a while by an agent who was later listed as "not recommended" by Writer’s Digest. She seemed nice enough but I chose her before information about agents was so readily available on the Internet as it is today and before Writer’s Digest listed her as "not recommended". She never sold my novels because, as it turned out, she had no relationship with publishing houses. Sigh. Giving up perhaps prematurely on trying to find an agent because I had no idea how to find a good one, I later had my fourth novel and two more novels in its trilogy e-published. From there, I had short stories published in six anthologies, edited and compiled two books of articles about acting and writing, and edited several books by another author. To my complete delight, I’ve now won quite a few awards and was referred to a top Hollywood agent who’s available only through referral. I was thrilled when he read most of my work, told me he thoroughly enjoyed it but was looking for a very particular type of project and would love to hear from me about my future projects. In the meantime, I’ve completed my seventh novel, am in the final revision stage, know much more about how to find a good literary agent, and am really hoping to find a good literary agent to represent it. I’m crossing my fingers that my seventh novel will be the one that finds an agent and gets into bookstores. :)
Dear Chick Magnet,
Does the gender poll answer reflect your everyday life?????? lol
I'm with Michele Lee: Published, Unagented, seeking agent Again.
And if you think searching for an agent the first time feels horrible, try doing it the second time. Yikes!
Why didn't the goggle account identity work?
Hey Laura ~ I am totally with you on "this is my first book AND the first one I want to get published."
I've been working on it for two and half years now. I'm on the third draft, but have made so many major changes along the way that it's probably more like Version 12.8 or something like that.
I don't want this to be my practice novel. Practice drafts, yes, but what the heck would I do this for if I expected it to be worthless in the end?
I'm curious.
How many of us read the last questions a couple of times before "getting" it?
Me: 3
So I'm dense. sue me.
Dear Chick Magnet,
Does the gender poll answer reflect your everyday life?????? lol
I'm with Michele Lee: Published, Unagented, seeking agent Again.
And if you think searching for an agent the first time feels horrible, try doing it the second time. Yikes!
Marilyn, seven is the magic number!
Nathan, those who wrote mentioning finding their own publisher reminded me of something I wanted to ask. Say a person succeeds at selling a novel directly to a publisher but still wants an agent to handle the contract. Is it crazy to then re-submit that sold novel to an agent that earlier turned it down, if the author still feels that particular agent is Miss/Mr./Ms./Mrs./Sahib/Doctor Right?
(hehehe)...Now it's 78% women. (I still can't believe you didn't already know this Nathan. Too funny...
I still wonder what the genres are for those women. I'd bet if you took a look at the market women writers are on the rise. (That would be interesting to check out as well.) It might give you an edge that other agents don't have...
Thanks, Linda! Crossing my fingers that's true. :)
It could be a draw back to all us "women" out here. It might serve us well to query agents who have less of a draw...I don't know?
I prefer to think of myself as pre-agented, because I haven't actually queried yet.
Great poll. Dawn, I am also in that publishing-contract-but-no-agent-hoping-the-WIP-will-grab-me-one boat.
LOL, Jen C. I'm with you!
We're all working on manuscripts, right?
I'm another published-but-agentless type. My writing teacher always said it was just as hard to get an agent as a publisher... actually, it's harder.
The age breakdown is interesting. It seems skewed a little younger than the blogosphere. Or maybe just my perception of the blogosphere is skewed.
pre-agented? ooohhh... I love that one! That's so my new line...
Thanks for the survey, Nathan!
What about Life Experience background? Seems that would be more valuable than college?
I'm actually surprised that it's only 72% unagented, because after all, Nathan, you ARE an agent. I would expect most folks who followed your blog to do so because they're looking for an agent, and you provide a lot of info on how to do that.
On the other hand, I have an agent, and I follow your blog because it's entertaining and informative about lots of aspect of the book publishing biz. So, I guess I really shouldn't be surprised at all!
linda-
Yeah, I think most agents would feel that was appropriate.
Have you ever wondered why people begin queries with retorical questions? :o)
Boo and hiss to those who Bronx salute rhetorical questions! *g*
I'm a third through one WIP an MG, gotta reasarch more for my YA and am going to LOVE that one's revisions, since I'll have to add more to it than I've got down now, yippee!!! The Angel of Mercy moved in for revisions--in the form of FINALLYgetting access to a law enforcement guy to talk to me!!!
Neat survey, Nathan, thanks. If you think I've got a thing for hair, when I update my pic, wait until you see mine :).
So F.P would not call Harper Lee a successful writer since she only wrote one novel. correct?
Wow... a lot of unagented readers, Nathan. Help a sista out!
Wow. There are a lot of females reading this blog so far. Huh. It must be Nathan's hair...
Oh, it's totally the hair. In fact, if he were to use a picture with the hair blowing in the wind, there'd probably be even more of us. Okay, the friendly and honest advice may help a teeeeensy bit, but it's mainly the hair.
Nathan,
I have a semi-serious question: how much is query reading and requesting partials like reading flap copy in a bookstore and deciding on books to read? Having a bookstore myself, I'm endlessly reading jacket copy. Some things look sort of shaky, some things look good but not for me, some things look like something I might read but I realize I probably won't, some things look like things I will read but I don't know when, and some things I'll want to start reading on the spot.
It's not very analytical. Pretty instinctive, as I guess it is for most people. So it makes me wonder if that's the initial sorting mechanism for editors and agents, too? Does much market analysis come in then, or is that later if you start considering more seriously?
I'm a pretty eclectic reader, and yet reading so much jacket copy I realize just how selective I really am. And this is among books that have already been published (and thus generally very good books). I think my selectivism would be even stronger amidst queries.
Just been pondering...
Bryan-
I think the biggest difference is that the author writes the query but not usually the jacket copy.
I'm surprised by some of the results... not that so many unagented writers are reading this blog, but that so many of them have so few written books.
I suppose I thought if they were all up to the agent search part, they'd have a couple of 'best-left-under-the-bed's' already notched in their belt.
I'm also surprised by the high amount of female to male readers.
Nathan, how do these statistics reflect publishing norms in general? I mean, are more females writing these days?
That was fun. And informative.
Whoops. That will teach me for not reading through the comments before I added my own... didn't intend to come in on an existing debate about the point of writing multiple works.
*blush*
Gotta back up the other epublished writers... as recently contracted epublished writer, I clicked "published" cheerfully and did not even notice that you had bunched it up with self-published. As we clear a paycheck for our work and as our work is novel length (90,000+words in my case) I guess when I glanced through the options and I saw the published or self-published, well, I had not paid to be published so I knew which one I was. It was not until I read the comments that I had to shoot to the top in frustration.
As we have to query, get rejected, edit, write synopsis (no... not in that order)and for all of the above go through the publishing process, how is our work of less substance? How can you one week discuss the wonders of Kindle and the next bash the authors writing that media? We write, we edit, we submit, we get paid. We are not self-published.
*steps gingerly from soapbox*
You've got a huge female Gen X following.
Ferris Bueller would be proud.
Wow! I feel like a strange oddball. So many of you are female and I'm male. I mean, it doesn't matter but I never realized the contrast was so big.
Its great clicking the finished a novel button and the 90% finished WIP button. If I can just wrap up book 2...
Thanks for this poll, Nathan. It's fun to see these things.
"No, it's much more of an even male/female mix. Although I will say, not to stereotype by gender or anything, but a lot more of the really "out there" queries tend to come from men, who I'm guessing aren't reading agent blogs in the same numbers as women."
But thankfully not all of us guys miss these blogs. ;)
Hannah, Congratulations! That's fantastic.
Marilyn, Seventh time is a charm.
I think there is a certain logic to the stats. Many women don't have the luxury of time until they get into their late thirties, and then when they carve out that time to write it's very exciting. When you're excited about something you want to share it, so search out the next step in the process. This leads to agents blogs. Victoria, I think stumbling on to something so informative keeps the dream alive even if we haven't a few full manuscripts that are under the bed. It's not necessarily the information though that keeps people returning to this blog, at least not for me. I can get the information, but Nathan is so entertaining and generous in humoring all of the different opinions and commentary and that's why perhaps not ready for an agent, we'd follow it nonetheless. At least that's why I do.
Oh, and just to avoid any unintentional debate, I understand that some people will make the time under any circumstances. That follows the line of thinking that some people have to write, they can't survive without it. What I am possibly suggesting that there is an entire world out there who really don't have the luxuries we presumably have, even the less fortunate of us.
And Ink, I think that's a great point. When I am in a bookstore, it takes very, very little time for me to decide if a book is for me. The jacket copy decides it (along with the cover to a minor degree. Certain types of books have certain covers as we all know). When I read that all I could think was if I expect someone to give my query a shot, should I therefore look a little more deeply before I reject a book for purchase? Seems to be the right thing to do, all things being equal. Thanks making me think about that.
After seeing the survey results, all I can say is the Ladies Love Cool Nathan.
I had no idea, even from reading comments, that the blog readership was so female-dominated.
Hello ladies ;-)
I'm with LJ (Anonymous). I've often felt that my short work just didn't count. In addition to stories and articles, I've published over a hundred poems. When I was nominated for a Pushcart, there was noone I could tell. And when I told a friend that I was interviewed for Poet's Market, she said, "We all have to start somewhere."
All this doesn't make me want an agent and a contract any less.
Laura Martone,
I am completely with you. I started my novel when I was 17,after meeting my major crush,Daniel Richler (I'm over it now, as far as my husband is concerned). Anyway,I decided I'd write a novel, and started contemplating ideas. A few days later I heard voices in my head. It was a conversation and I wrote it down. That part still exists in my ms, so does the very general framework, but as I grew up, I wrote and rewrote. I'm still rewriting, but now I am 32 which is slightly older than my 27 year-old protag, and with a lot of life experience to add. My practice has been in rewrite after rewrite, and all the other things that I have worked at on the side. I am beyond sentimentally attached. Do I have have other ideas and things I am working on? Yes. My first published book won't even be that one, because, (you guessed it), I'm still working on it, though I am actually nearing completion right now. And, if it gets rejected all over the place, I'll pull my red pen back out. Keep going Laura.
As others have said, I'm extremely surprised by the men to women ratio. WOW! I've actually never even MET a woman who's written or writing a book (other than at workshops, writer's groups, etc), but I've met plenty of men. Hmmm....
This makes me feel like a cheater. Because technically, yes, I've written 7 novels and 4 of them are published--but those 4 novels were all contracted romance work under a pen name. That I started hating on book #2.
So I pretend those don't exist when it comes to my career. I'm a fantasy author, and in that field, I've written 3. Two were terrible, but this one isn't.
Thanks, Nathan.
Part of the reason I asked is because I've been wondering a bit about overthinking queries lately. The writers who are interested in finding information go around, tracking all the blogs, picking up all the tips, cross the t's and dot the i's, check off each element that's needed. And yet maybe forgetting to tell a story...
So I got back to thinking about jacket copy, that very immediate sort of reaction I get when picking up a book. Yes, I want to read it. No, I don't want to read it. Trying to create that sense of intrigue... and so a query is just sort of like a story in miniature. Beginning (hook), middle (complications and rising action) and end (conclusion, or at least a hint of such).
But, if agents are thinking market analysis first, how it fits, etc., then maybe it won't be as big a deal. But I was thinking maybe it's not so different than what I do - a quick and subjective filter looking for that quick yes feeling.
Okay, it's late and I'm blabbering.
Go, Laura!
I absolutely agree that your first novel can be "the one". In fact, this particular phenomenon is closely related to the one-hit-wonder. Sometimes it is the story that captures a writer's heart, not the craft. Dedication to the story keeps the author chiseling away, sometimes for years and years, at the same story because they know the story is good but the craftsmanship could be better. Tolkein much?
Some of the books I've most enjoyed have been first works. A Time To Kill is my favorite Grisham novel and it was his first, although it was the third to be published.
And how many times have you read a body of work and come back to the first as the one you love the most? I bet it was the one the author enjoyed writing the most, as well.
The pay-your-dues, blood-sweat-and-tears school of thought has its place but it doesn't recognize the distinction between writers and storytellers. Some of the very best writers can't tell a story that resonates. Some kind of bad writers can. And sometimes, the right story makes a storyteller into a writer.
Jay, I think the difference is that men frequently talk of writing books, whereas women actually write them ;)
Laura, Cowgirl, I envy your passion for your pieces. I never have (and imagine I never will) come close to that level of dedication for a piece of writing. Sure, I've become attached, but I can part ways easily enough (and, no, it's not b/c of my wandering Y chromosome :)... In some ways, I know it's good that I can get up and move on, but I admire your perseveration and wish you (and everyone else equally impassioned) all the best.
I also just read Malcolm Gladwell's Blink, so I've been thinking a lot about first impressions. So I was wondering what agents key on first. The genre facts, the bio, or is that all skipped and it's straight to the story to see if it resonates?
In agent for a day I found myself skipping over the intro paragraph if there was one... if I liked the story bit I'd look at it again more closely. I suppose the connection I'm trying to make is between the first impression (and central interest) of the agent and how I might reflect that in the structure of a query.
Okay, jabbering again. Sorry. (Should recommend Blink to everybody while I'm at it. Very good stuff_
Bryan, great point (and I'll second the recommend on the book) -- perhaps that's why we should begin w/ the story (if we don't have a personal connection) and hope it instantly grabs the agent (instead of the 'I'm seeking rep...' sort of thing) -- that whole hook thingamabob...
But I'm tired of queries. I say, naff off you little plonkers, you're driving me mad as a box of frogs.
This reminds me that I did have a textbook for Law students published - first in CD Rom format (writing teh search index was a pian) and then as a paperback. But I was contracted to write it so I've never really felt that it counted.
I'm stunned that my age group (30-39) is currently the most represented amongst the blog readership. I thought I would be one of the oldies!
Hannah, many congratulations! And...10-20 novels? And you aren't even 20?!
I want to know how to do that. I mean, it's too late for me to do it by the age of 20, but...
Wow, thanks everyone! And yep, I just finished the first draft of book number 13 a few days ago. Four or five of them are okay, the rest are total and complete crap. But we plow on!
I finished the first just after I turned fourteen. It is pretty damn awful.
Bryan, I have a comment about the query. This is what I think: trust your gut instincts as a writer. Write the query that you'd want to receive.
The other thing: write it once, get feedback, re-write and then let it go. So many people re-work the query until their voice is lost.
Btw, I thought you were hilarious in your comment about men/women above. You're so funny sometimes. If people haven't gone to Ink's blog and read his piece on Walmart, I hope they do. It's the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Re. the gender imbalance, who could argue that Nathan has good hair? Nonetheless, I've noticed he relates as well with men on the blog as he does with women, so I really think the hair issue is just an added bonus.
I've also noticed the same basic gender breakdown on other agent's blogs, and although some of them have very nice hair, they are not....um, good looking men. Well, they are not men at all. So, Nathan's idea that more women come to blogs, because more women are willing to ask for 'directions', is...well, I agree.
And congrats to both Hannah on her book, and Marilyn on finishing her next one! Good luck to both of you.
Thanks so much, Mira!
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